Sanding Green Glass (Bear)

[Cerce]

So, I'm new to the forums. I've been lurking around reading the wealth of information found here. Great Resource!

I hope I've parked this thread in the right place!

I have an early to mid 70's Bear Kodiak Hunter, that is actually already in very decent shape...but I want to make it really beautiful again. It's green wood with a blue stripe, dark green glass front and back. It's got very sound laminations, the tips are nice, and it's mostly cosmetic issues, that I think are only in the clear coat - a lot of white scuffing on the green glass.

My questions mostly revolve around the glass..

Here are a few:

  When you're sanding the glass, how do you know you've only removed the clear coat and are not actually getting into the glass itself?  

  What if you do get into the glass just a bit, is that ok?  

As a test, I light sanded one of the tips that was already quite scuffed with some 220 grit paper. As you sand the glass dulls...

  Does the "glassy" luster come back to the glass when you apply a clear coat?  

If you click any of these images it will take you to the album with all of them.

  Also, if anyone can identify exactly which year this is, I'd love to know!  

   
       
       
       
         
 
 [url=http://http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/f_gliha/media/Kodiak%207_zpsd55xjvww.jpg.html]    
 [/url]
 

[Blackhawk]

Those bows are work horses and well-built.  Your bow is from the mid-70's and I believe the white overlays on the handle mean it is a '73-75, but I'm not the one to say what year exactly.

I enjoy cleaning up old bows and making them shine again, and if I really wanted a new-looking piece then I would pass it on to the pro's to restore.

If that were my bow, I would tape off the original silk screens and writing and begin by sanding lightly with the courser sandpaper and then move to something like 400 paper.  

It is possible to take too much off the glass (which can reduce weight or change tiller, but doing that takes some real effort.)  It will change to a dull finish when sanding but that's normal and will shine again with the finish.  I sand just enough to remove any light nicks or scratches and believe your bow will come out great.  

Just before final finishing, I remove the taped areas and lightly sand or steel wool those areas.  I will also use fine steel wool over the entire bow and then clean it well with a clean cloth before final spray to make sure I got all the dust off the bow.

I just use Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane in the spray can following their directions.  Walmart has it for around $9-10. I use clear gloss for about 4-5 coats.  I've used satin finish too and it works well.

I am sure others will have their methods of cleaning up old bows, but know you will enjoy doing it and appreciate the final results.

...and welcome to Tradgang.  I'm impressed that you had great pics with your first post.  It takes some of us years to figure that out.    :D

[TonyW]

Great bow to start on, Frank.

[warpedarrow]

Here is a link to a clean up that I did on a Grizzly.   http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476391

Welcome to Tradgang.  You do know that if you hang around this forum for very long you will come down with an illness that can't be cured but the symtoms can be relieved by purchasing old bows.

[Cerce]

Thanks to all for your replies, I really appreciate it.


Tony, Thanks. When I saw this bow, I thought "this one has good bones".

Something I've not illustrated is just how bad the scratches on the belly of the limbs are, but it's very similar to Brads, but with green glass. But again, it appears to only be the finish.

Lon  , I really appreciate all the feedback. When I purchased it, I wasn't sure, but I secretly hope it's a 1973, so we would be the same age. I had recently contacted Alan Harford about replacement decals. I worried that if the finish were yellowed or there were scratches in those areas, like the one next to the word "Bear", I wouldn't be able to sand those problems away. I also worried I could never forge the writing. But after seeing your thoughts, I think I'll try to save them. If it doesn't work, at most I will be out is my labor (of love) and some urethane.

By the way, how many coats/cans does it typically take?

Brad, I bookmarked your page - thanks for posting that! The bows are very similar it seems. You've also inspired me to do a before and after photo-shoot.
Did you remove the coin or the stabilizer bushing?
And did you save your screenprints and hand-writing, or are they replacements?

And yes, I've already got the fever, bad. I started out just wanting a vintage recurve, and now I'm wanting to purchase several and restore them instead of buying ones that don't need it. lol

Reading the bowdoc restoration document, the coin removal with hot melt and a bolt makes sense, but I'm a bit lost on the bushing removal. Looking at the photo near the text, I think what it's implying, but doesn't say, is that you use something to heat the bushing (in his case an old screwdriver), but then screw in a bolt to pry it out of there. I'm not clear on that. Not sure why you need heat, not sure why you wouldn't use a bolt with the proper thread.

I really can't wait to get started on this.

Frank

[warpedarrow]

I did not remove the stabilizer bushing and carefully sanded around and on the screenprints.  I have never removed a bushing but assume they would not be much trouble.  I have a old steel stabillizer that I could heat up then put on the bow using a welding glove, let it heat the bushing for a bit, then wiggle and pull it free.

The clean up on the old grizzly only took me a few hours.  A full restoration usually takes, at the minimum, ten or twelve hours spread over several weeks.  Don't get in a hurry and pay attention to small details.  Glossy finish and a good camera seem to magnify the smallest imperfection.

[warpedarrow]

Oh, and from what I can tell from the pictures, I would be hesitant to do a lot of sanding on that bow.  You can make those scuffs go away with just sanding off the glaze and putting on a couple of coats of urethane.  The riser looks good to me but you're the guy that is holding the bow and can adjust the light etc. to check the condition of the finish

[jhk1]

I've had really good results using 3M sandpaper with the reddish-purpleish abrasive.  I think the package has a "3X" on it because they say it lasts 3x as long as regular sandpaper.  This sandpaper removes material and smoothes surfaces so well that the "roughest" grit I typically use on a bow is the 220-grit, and often use just 320-grit and 400-grit to refinish a bow.

[jhk1]

I refinished the glass surfaces on a Kodiak Hunter just like yours with Minwax Wipe-on Polyurethane (gloss) and it turned out really nice.  The thing I like about the wipe-on poly is that you get a nice smooth finish with no brush marks.  For a nice smooth gloss finish, I've had better results using the wipe-on poly than I've had with spray-can poly.  I've done a few bows with satin spray-can poly and they turned out nice.  I just prefer wipe-on poly for gloss finishes.

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for the good tips jhk1.

I've read about doing the wipe-on but took the easy way out with spray.  I think I will try your method on the next project.  

How long do you wait between coats?  How many coats?

[TonyW]

Don't try the hot melt bolt method on your post 1972 Bear medallion. It is not a flush mounted metal Bear coin.

Late 1972 started what was called the "Button Medallion". It was positioned high up in the handle and was raised above the surface of the bow. It came in both gold and chrome covered plastic. These replaced all coin medallions and continued into Florida production.

   

   

If you pry these "buttons" off it is easy to break off the stem that is pressed into the riser. Then you must glue it back on.

[Cerce]

Yes, thanks for the good tips jhk1.

Brad I know what you're saying, and I'm going to try to only lightly sand the bow. However, unfortunately, the riser has a lot of yellowing in the finish. I wasn't able to remove it with polishing. I'm guessing it's going to be all the way through the finish. Like you said it's light and camera angle. I took those photos highlightinhg the good, not the bad.

Tony are you saying the coins should not be removed unless you're willing to snap it off and glue it back in?


Frank

[TonyW]

From 1959 to 1972 Bear used metal coins that were glued into a snug recess that was bored into the riser for a flush mount.
Your bow is a post 1972 green Futurewood model.
After 1972, the metal coins were no longer used, and a small hole was drilled into the riser so the   Bear chrome plastic button medallion could be press fitted in.
I never tried to pry a button medallion off, but I have seen used "buttons" that were missing the stub. I have also seen used replacement buttons in mint condition

[Bud B.]

Is there a source for these buttons? I need one for a 70's Hunter. Preferably silver.