Anyone hunt with sight pins on their trad bows?

[Legolas]

Mike G
You said it. I just want to know the virtue of using a pin or sight. The discussion of what is traditional is great but not where I was headed but a great discussion anyway.

I just love archery    period.

I see the Olympic archers with stabilizers and anchors below the jaw and sight pins and am I am fascinated. I see our sage Byron Ferguson and he shoots dimes out of the air and I am fascinated. I see my own arrow fly at a whitetail and leave only  some fletch out of its side and I am fascinated.

I love all archery.

But since I have so much resource here on Tradgang  I can ask a simple question and get answers   and  passion.  Its nice to bounce things off each other and I love the spirited opinions.

Paul

[Molson]

Shaun-

Usually, adding a sight will make dominant eye issues worse unless you close the dominant eye.  The problem with that is, when you get excited, the body's natural reaction is to increase focus in both eyes on the object of your excitement.

I have a friend who had these issues.  He shoots gap and would always be hitting about 12" left.  We pretty much cured it by extending his arrow length out two inches which reduced the angle (so to speak) of his sighting problem.

If you hold your finger up close to your face and do the dominant eye test, you will see quite a bit of movement in the finger.  Now extend your finger out as far as you can and do the test.  You will notice the finger moves maybe a third of what it did up close.  That is why the extra lenght of arrow helped in his case.

Another option is to try different anchor point locations that may reduce the angle as well.  Perhaps even anchoring at the front of the mouth, wherever, the goal is to reduce the illusion.

Something to try.

[Otto]

Sights are as traditional as anything else found on a recurve or a longbow since Og first broke a branch off a tree, tied a piece of gut to each end and proclaimed himself a bowhunter. They're only labeled as "non traditional" by the neo Trads who have yet to take the time to learn a bit of history on the sport of archery.

It's also on the very top of the list titled "Stupid Stuff to Argue About".

[Rico]

Sights (gap,poa) work best on a bow that has wheels and cables. Instinctive works best on bows that do not IMO.  
 To find out if your bow is traditional go to a traditional shoot  with it. If they let you shoot your traditional that day

[SteveB]

Sights (which are NOT gap or POA) are extremely effective on a trad bow. Tell the Olympic archers they don't work well.

That they are more effective on a bow with let off enabling longer aiming times is irrelevant to their value to a trad shooter or whether or not they are "traditional".

To ignore the fact they have been in use for 1000's of years so we can have a new neotrad definition of "traditional" is more then a little funny to me.

Steve

[ChuckC]

The original question asks if we have used a sight. I did a LONG time ago.  Although I think sights work well with a compound, my shooting style with a longbow will not work with sights.  

I cant my bow too much and frankly I don't hold at anchor.  Fact is, I sometimes anchor with my wrist from the looks of it.  There is never time enough to even see the sight pin much less align it with anything. True instinctive shooting if you ask me.  

If you hold your bow in a more upright fashion and come to a good solid anchor and hold it for enough time to aqcquire the sight, place it where you want to and then release...maybe you should try it out.

Molson.  
So if I have my cross hairs set at 100 and the target is at 300, so I need to hold over...  am I no longer using a sight, just reference shooting ?  

And if the gap I am using (arrow tip) just happens to correspond with my point-on for that target, am I using POA or gap shooting or sights ?  

Looks to me like we are taking something, anything, and placing it into our sight plane then using this thing as a sight or point of reference toward making something hit the target.  Kinda all blends in...

We went and named all these things something.  I hear the eskimos have a ton of different words for "snow", but seems to me it is still just snow.


Change subjects just a bit.  We have argued quite a bit over the definition of "Traditional" and all of its nuances.  Maybe we should take a vote on what "traditional" means on this site and from then on, that's what it means.  

Its just a word guys.  It means whatever we want it to mean.

ChuckC

[Rico]

There is no need to take a vote Terry Green already said that on this site it means no cables or wheels I can live with that who said anything different that may not necessarily hold true at your local tradtionla shoot.
   I stand by the fact that a sight or gap shooting of poa will work better shooting a compound  I didn't say it wouldn't work on a stick bow. In the olympics compounds are not allowed Why? stickbows can not compete = when it comes to compounds using a sight.
  Shooting instinctive true instinctive do not see arrow at all ,only while in flight, uses muscle memory and with a bow that changes weight in mid stream makes it difficult to shoot instinctive. IMO

[ishiwannabe]

To me, traditional is and should be defined individually. How we chose to go about it is up to us, as no one is out in the woods with us. Same as taking "ethical shots"....each person has a different view, a different comfort zone.
Sights, no sights.....gap, POA....it really isnt important, as long as we, as bowhunters, do our best to make each shot taken at a live animal a quick humane kill.
Some like heavy arrows, others prefer light. My point is this...each aspect of our equipment is what WE choose. How we shoot it, how far we are comfortable shooting it, Bh choices....etc etc, it is all what we chose to purchase or make. How can any of that be wrong?

[Molson]

Chuck,

Yes, at 300 yds, you would be looking at the crosshair high on the target.  Your aiming point would be, say, the "8" ring and your bullet would drop into the 10.

A lot of the terms used to describe aiming methods get mixed up or bunched together.  It's not that big of a deal.  The sight basically takes the place of the Point of Aim method.  It just allows you to put your "point of aim" on the target instead of on a spot below it.  

As far as what is or isn't traditional, if it didn't matter, folks wouldn't get so upset about it.  It has pretty much been defined by the shoot rules, the books and magazines written about it, the local clubs, and the majority of the people who participate in it. Not to long ago, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

There's a bunch of satisfaction to be had at learning to shoot with a barebow method. It seems to be one of the major attractions to the sport.  Nothing wrong with trying to keep that aspect alive.  The final decision will always be yours.

[Rico]

"As far as what is or isn't traditional, if it didn't matter, folks wouldn't get so upset about it. It has pretty much been defined by the shoot rules, the books and magazines written about it, the local clubs, and the majority of the people who participate in it. Not to long ago, this wouldn't even be a discussion."
  Funny how a word like Traditonal is for ever changing

[SOS]

To answer the question, I do not hunt with a pin.  I have a pin on one bow just to try to see if it helps.  Sometimes it leads to tight groups, sometimes I revert to instinctive and it screws me up.  I think using one to learn consistent form is not bad idea, but eventually learning to focus, anchor and release is oh, so sweet!

[ChuckC]

Molson... agreed

Everyone.   Happy holidays !

ChuckC

[Arrow4Christ]

I use a sight, but it doesn't have pins on it, it was mentioned earlier in the thread, the DAS SRF sight. It has many advantages, very quick pointing, like instinctive, but more accurate, like a pin sight. To me, it is the ultimate aiming method for hunting (again FOR ME). There is only one disadvantage, which really ain't a disadvantage to me, you shouldn't cant the bow while using the sight...it is doable, if you have to, but I just try to avoid it. It has not caused me any problems in hunting situations yet....if you must cant in some situation all you do is line up horizontally with the tip of the arrow and vertically with the sight, aiming slightly lower on the sight depending on the degree of cant.
Merry CHRISTmas,
Craig

[hs6181]

I'm thinking about using a sight pin, didn't Jack Howard use them for hunting?

My eye sight is starting to fade some and I think it might help me feel better about the shot when I have a live animal in front of me.

it don't make me happy but it might make me more confident.

[ChuckC]

One thing that I don't believe was touched on.  When you have a sight pin, or arrow point, or some sighting device on or near your bow, it is at a focal length of maybe 30".  The target is much farther.  As you age, your eyes may not be able to do a good job of getting both in any sort of decent focus.  Even if you have awesome vision, it is nearly impossible to focus perfectly on both.  At FLETC we were trained to focus on the front sight of the handgun we were using, and to keep the rear sight and target as a blur.  Still there, but as a blur.

Using a sight, as explained above may actually cause problems, not fix them.
Just a thought
ChuckC

[Legolas]

How does this DAS sight work? It looks so large an aperature that the whole animal would be framed? How do you narrow to a kill zone?

Thanks,

Paul

[Mr.Chuck]

I think if you look down the arrow, you use sights!  If you shoot the first arrow instinctive, the second arrow at the same target is not.   If you practice,  you use some sighting mechanism!  Whose to say for sure.  It's about whatever it takes to get the arrow to the intended spot!   happy holidays to all!

[DeerSpotter]

I have questioned, and it will be like what is traditional.  Let's try this one;

If you have traditional bow, and it's made out of wood, and you're in a tree stand " is that traditional hunting"

I hunt with the traditional bow " sometimes " I do still hunt with that other kind.  I am fortunate for the past eight weeks I had been hunting in tree stands, never did that before, always on the ground, up until 2002, I never hunted in a double bull, " is hunting in a double bull traditional?"

Do you see where I'm going.  You see when I stepped into the woods even with my other bow, I'm still a traditional hunter, I may have some different components on that bow, but the traditional hunter is in the mind, not any equipment.  Sometimes I feel I'm cheating, when I'm in a tree stand, or double bull, but it's all in the attitude of what " traditional hunting" you could even say that using a black powder gun is traditional hunting.

When you step in the woods and if you are relying on your equipment you are not a traditional hunter, but if you're relying on the skill to use that equipment it's a different story.  The attitude of the hunter is that he beats his wildlife in its own environment, on its own turf.  To me that is traditional hunting, yes you get some guys that think that equipment is everything.  But they're only fooling themselves.

My idea is that your archery equipment becomes an extension of you, and you're traditional hunting becomes a way to implement the outcome of that hunt.  I have always had to forget about what other people think.  People think that I'm weird because I turned down big bucks and go after matriarch doe's. "  Traditional hunting" is an attitude no matter what you have your hand.  If you have the attitude that you can bop into the woods for 45 minutes, fill your tag and walkout, you might as well buy a so-called hunting video.  Save yourself some $$$$.

So again " what he is traditional hunting"
it's not the equipment, it's the attitude of how you use that equipment.


Pastor Carl

[larry]

Paul, it works more like a peep sight on a rifle, I had one once that you could unscrew the peep out, and you had about a 5/16" circle left, most guys call them a ghost ring...you see it ,but it's fuzzy, and your eye will automatically center the front blade in it. The SRF sight works on the same princeable... with no front blade..your target serves as the blade and depending on distance, your target may be slighty higher or lower within the ring.

[Arrow4Christ]

Paul,
The SRFs tapered shape allows you to memorize what place to use at which distance. For example, the middle (widest part of the sight) for me is set at 20 yards. For 25 yards I hold slightly higher, and for 30 slightly higher than that and so on. The same goes for moving closer to the target, just in reverse. Basically it narrows your reference frame to something definite, and the sight becomes a blur after you practice with it a while. You just look at the spot you want to hit and shoot it, it's a lot like instinctive. The sight just gives your mind a definite reference to refer to so you're consistent.
Craig