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Author Topic: Red Flags Everywhere  (Read 3886 times)

Offline Dr. Ed Ashby

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Red Flags Everywhere
« on: September 20, 2008, 04:43:00 PM »
I know that most Americans pay little attention to international political developments, but the breaking news from South Africa this over the last two days puts up red flags everywhere. Yesterday there were reports that there was pressure being exerted on  Thambo Mbeki to step down as president of South Africa. Today it is reported that he has been forced by the ANC to step down. Why is that of importance to hunters? The almost certain successor is Jacob Zuma. Zuma has made it clear that he favors forced redistribution of wealth - in the vein of Robert Mugabe. It is very likely that there will be forced takeovers of farms held by white South Africans in the not too distant future. These may well be as violent as those in Zimbabwe were. One can also expect an increase in quasi state-sponsored violence against all those in the population who are not on the side of the ANC. It is also likely that and land takeovers in South Africa will instigate a similar action in Namibia, where there has long been a strongly expressed  desire to follow Mugabe’s land redistribution policies.

If making a hunt in South Africa or Namibia is one of those things on your personal ‘bucket list’ I strongly suggest  that you not delay doing it for very long. There is no predicting exactly what the time frame is likely to be, but I wouldn’t wager against it happing at a rate even faster than that of Zimbabwe. I lived and guided in Zimbabwe throughout the initial four years of the lad grab there, and can assure you that you do not want to be present during such an event; not even as a visiting hunter.

And here’s a bit more food for thought. My older brother is a rifle hunter, not a bow hunter, but in 1975 he borrowed money from the bank and used that money to make a 28 day safari. At the time I thought he was totally nuts. On that 28 day safari he took all of the big five - elephant, rhino, buffalo, lion and leopard; along with 23 other species of big game. To the best of my knowledge (and I’ve tried to check this out as carefully as I can) he is the very last hunter ever to take all of the big five on a single safari. The total cost of his trip, including airfare, the hunt, trophy fees, shipment of the trophies and the taxidermy was $28,000.00. Today, that won’t even pay one-half the daily rate on most hunts for just a trophy class elephant!

Bottom line. If you think you ever want to make that Africa trip I would seriously think about doing it very, very soon.

Ed
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Offline Mr.Magoo

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 05:31:00 PM »
Some of us actually can, and do, read.   ;)

Anyhow, thx. for the heads-up.  With SA being more industrialized than most other African countries, it's a bit hard to imagine large scale revolutionary policies being implemented, but I suppose it's possible.

I'd guess most Americans (and Europeans) view Africa (in toto) as a continent in constant political flux and plan accordingly.  

I've spoken with several South Africans when traveling in Europe and without exception they long for the "good old days".  Of course, the good old days were better for some than others.

Offline Danny Rowan

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 12:20:00 AM »
i HOPE THIS IS NOT TRUE. I HAVE A HUNT BOOKED IN 2010.

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Offline Tilzbow

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 01:49:00 AM »
Danny,

See the below article from the AP. Some of what Dr. Ashby wrote is factual and some is more than likely spectualation on his part and although he knows much more about the political environment than I do we can only hope he turns out to be wrong. I've got a hunt booked in 2009...

ANC forces South African President Mbeki to resign
Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:34 PM EDT
The Associated Press
By DONNA BRYSON Associated Press Writer


JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (AP) — President Thabo Mbeki bowed to heavy pressure from his own party to resign Saturday, tossed to the sidelines of the economic powerhouse he built up as punishment for allegedly abusing his power in trying to quash a popular rival.

The swiftness of the ouster likely will stoke fears about the political and financial direction of South Africa, particularly if key Cabinet ministers decide to quit in solidarity with Mbeki.

But the change also allows the governing African National Congress to declare its internal leadership battle over and turn its attention to next year's elections, when key concerns will be about corruption and demands from the poor for jobs and houses.

Even as it demanded he step down, the ANC praised Mbeki for overseeing unprecedented growth. But little of the wealth created since he succeeded Nelson Mandela in 1999 has trickled down to the black majority that had hoped for more with the end of apartheid.

The result is that poor blacks have flocked to the ANC's populist leader, Jacob Zuma, a one-time Mbeki protege who became a potent foe. He is considered front-runner for next year's presidential election, but parliament will pick an interim leader to take over from Mbeki.

While Zuma and Mbeki espouse similar views of South Africa's future, they differ sharply in style. Aloof and donnish, Mbeki won praise from business but never attained the public support enjoyed by the personable, energetic Zuma, particularly among leftists, union members and young people.

Many poor people lionize Zuma as a leader who understands the pain of the millions of South Africans who remain on the margins of society.

The Young Communist League said Mbeki's departure gives the government "an opportunity to intensify the provision of quality services to our people, especially the working class and the poor."

Mbeki came under pressure from his party to quit following a judge's ruling last week that he may have had a role in Zuma being charged with corruption. Mbeki, who was due to leave office next year after two terms as president, denied that but gave in to the demands Saturday.

The ANC's secretary-general, Gwede Mantashe, said Mbeki would remain president until an interim one was appointed, but Mbeki was already stepping back. He sent the foreign minister to head the delegation Mbeki had planned to take to the U.N. General Assembly.

Mantashe said parliament, which is controlled by the ANC, would meet soon to formalize the process for replacing Mbeki. Parliament elects the president in South Africa.

A major concern was threats by key Cabinet ministers to quit over Mbeki's removal. Attention was especially focused on Finance Minister Trevor Manuel, who has shared the credit with Mbeki for South Africa's sustained economic growth and investor-friendly policies over the past decade.

Mantashe said Zuma was meeting with Cabinet ministers hoping to persuade them to stay on, saying the top priority was "ensuring the smooth running of the country."

Speaking to reporters, Mantashe said that after meeting all of Friday and into the early hours Saturday, a high-level ANC committee "decided to recall the president" before his term in office expires in April.

Hours later, the president's office issued a terse statement:

"Following the decision of the National Executive Committee of the African National Congress to recall President Thabo Mbeki, the President has obliged and will step down after all constitutional requirements have been met."

Mbeki's spokesman said there would be no further comment Saturday.

South Africans vote for parties, not individuals. That puts a premium on party loyalty and discipline among legislators and allows political leaders to quickly make radical changes.

Although Mbeki's removal came quicker than many people expected, South Africans had been anticipating a shift from Mbeki to Zuma at least since last December, when Zuma defeated the president in a party election for the ANC's leadership.

Helen Zille, leader of South Africa's main opposition party, told state television that the ANC has made its internal problems a crisis for the country. "It's about revenge, it's about settling political scores," she said.

Mantashe insisted the move to remove Mbeki was meant to restore unity and stability to party and country, not to punish him.

But many saw it as Mbeki's defeat, and it opened the way for opponents to question the ANC over how a leader who tried to oust an allegedly corrupt aide was removed while the accused stands on the brink of becoming president.

Mbeki fired Zuma as his national deputy president in 2005, after Zuma's financial adviser was convicted of trying to elicit a bribe to deflect investigations into a multibillion-dollar international arms deal.

Initial charges were withdrawn against Zuma, but the chief prosecutor said last December that he had enough evidence to bring new ones. That comment came within days of Zuma defeating Mbeki in voting for ANC president.

In his ruling Sept. 12, Judge Christopher Nicholson said it appeared Mbeki and his justice minister colluded with prosecutors against Zuma as part of the "titanic power struggle" within the ANC. Mbeki indignantly denied the accusation.

South Africa emerged from years of institutionalized racism in 1994 and entered an era of reconciliation embodied by anti-apartheid icon Nelson Mandela. Mbeki took over in 1999 and ushered in sustained economic growth averaging nearly 5 percent a year.

Many poor blacks disdained those achievements, complaining the benefits weren't reaching the masses. Others criticized Mbeki for failing to fight the country's crippling crime, and health activists were dismayed that he played down South Africa's devastating AIDS crisis.

Mbeki is regarded by many Africans as a statesmen for promoting what he calls Africa's renaissance and mediating conflicts ranging from Sudan to Ivory Coast to Congo.

For many years, his quiet diplomacy in troubled Zimbabwe was criticized as ineffective and biased toward Robert Mugabe, the autocratic president. But last week, he persuaded Mugabe to share power with the opposition. It was a retreat after nearly three decades of unchallenged power, although talks on the formation of a coalition Cabinet have since deadlocked.
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Offline tradtusker

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 05:24:00 AM »
don't get me wrong South Africa is my home and will always be!

 our family and many others are as entitled to live on its land as any born there irrelevant of skin color.

we left South Africa 8 years ago when my father saw things where going to go bad.

i have however been back every year for several months mainly guiding for a safari operation. Interesting to go back each year and see the new changes.

violence is as bad if not worse in South Africa as it is Zim. We had an elderly couple killed in there home not far from us( the details would not be fit for many to read). An elderly farmer killed in town for the money in his wallet (which probably wouldn't buy you a muffin and coffee at Starbucks) the list is endless...makes me sick

The whole area i grew up in has been claimed and force bought by the government. and you'd be wrong in thinking they would just hand the land ownership over to the tribes...they've got them now..."you want the land...you vote for us!"

the farm next door to us has been clear felled for firewood! you can name the blades of grass on that place its been so heavily overgrazed.

i visited a nearby township where i was good friends with many of the people, something has changed because i feared for my life when i went back, i was not welcome and that was made clear!

i speak in length to everyone about the political situation every time i go back (black and white)and read up on it when i am not there. Don't get me wrong, there are people there that will not leave no matted how hard it is. people still making a lot of money out there and the lifestyle is still very good if your in the right place with the right money.

but people have got this ostrich syndrome sticking there heads in the ground and pretending whats going on around them is not happening.

the mentality of the people that i have spoken with is something else and holds NO LONG TERM FUTURE for southern africa!

"Why must i go to college for 4 years to get a degree, just give me one!"

the concept of earning something in non existent, ill just take it!

if something is bigger and better than me then ill just cut it down so that we'r the same.  

this is as i see things first hand over there im not trying to upset anyone im not sucking this out of my thumb form across the sea after reading a few newspaper articles.

i dont see hunting falling to peaces anytime soon there are some big outfits in SA that make a LOT of money, the industry brings in a lot of money. they wont let there business fall though easily.
hang on to your hunts out there and take it as it comes.
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Andy Ivy

Offline J-dog

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 07:59:00 AM »
The concept of expecting things to be given and not earned holds true in alot of countries. SA is such a beautiful country - I hope they come out well there. For safety sake and I have been caught up in the middle of bad times in other areas - I would watch the climate there closely and then decide on making a trip - especially if my family was tagging along.

J
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Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 10:59:00 AM »
Mr Magoo...I'm having difficulty following your train of thought.

What does industrialization have to do with whether a political "coup" and subsequent redistribution of land or money will occur or not?  

Despotism, socialism, and lots of other forms of "I'm in charge and the rest of you listen to me cause I know what's better for you than you do" -political power grabs happen in any kind of country- 3rd world or fully developed.

All one need do to know that's true is recall 1930's Germany. Plenty of industrialization there. A redistribution of property and wealth occurred- the Jews lost everything and it was given to "pure" Germans.

I'm not equating any class of Africans to Jews or Nazis with this, merely stating a fact- there's plenty of precedent to say that a redistribution of land and wealth is probable in this circumstance-and Mugabe showed Zuma the way.

I've heard Americans, Germans, English, Canadians, French, Swiss, Italians, and Danes wish for the good old days- I believe thats more a function of age than political situation- in other words, its universal. The good old days are, well, the good old days.

If Mugabe or Zuma really WERE for the people, that might be one thing- but Mugabe has already proven all he wanted was power, and history shows that's all these men ever turn out to want.

Ed was giving us an educated "heads up" and my bet is he is spot on.
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Offline tradtusker

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 12:22:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
Mugabe showed Zuma the way.
 
your right there Ray! and no doubt he was taking notes.  

what also worry's me is that this Land Grab thing is becoming accepted by some and expected by others
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Andy Ivy

Offline John3

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 03:51:00 PM »
No one (my trip planned in 2010) will be going to SA if it goes crazy there... Forcing people off their land. 3 or 4 generations that cleared and worked the ground making it valuable. Maybe there needs to be a civil war. I'm afraid there will be.

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Offline Zenzele

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 05:39:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tradtusker:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
Mugabe showed Zuma the way.
 
your right there Ray! and no doubt he was taking notes.  

what also worry's me is that this Land Grab thing is becoming accepted by some and expected by others [/b]
Still got family out there! I was criticized for "running away" I made the right decision IMO!
Africa is in my veins and heart, I pray for things to be ok...
They say the reason the soil is red in Africa, is from all the blood spilt on it. Why should it change when it's been like that since the beginning of time? Take it as it comes with your hunts, things can change quickly! Troubled times ahead!!
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Offline bill langer

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 05:49:00 PM »
If all Americans and Europeans stopped booking hunts and vacations to SA today, the powers that be and or will be may start to think. Common sense is needed abroad even more so than we need it at home today! Maybe only dreaming here- but might make a difference for the future.

Offline Dr. Ed Ashby

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 07:34:00 PM »
Here's a few of the reasons I fear the worst; information from current sources: (bold emphasis in the text are my addition)
+++++++

Mbeki sacked to protect Zuma: South African opposition
Posted Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:01am AEST
Updated Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:26pm AEST

Mr Mbeki has agreed to resign (AFP: Desmond Kwande )

Opposition groups in South Africa have accused the governing African National Congress (ANC) of throwing the country into crisis by forcing the resignation of President Thabo Mbeki. Mr Mbeki has agreed to resign after ANC leaders asked him to step down over allegations that he interfered in a corruption case against his rival, the party leader Jacob Zuma.

The president of the main opposition party, the Democratic Alliance, Helen Zille, says Mr Mbeki's resignation has been orchestrated to protect Mr Zuma from corruption allegations."The ANC has made its own internal problems a crisis for the country," she said. This is exactly the political solution that Jacob Zuma has always wanted. It's about revenge, it's about seeking political scores. "And it is quite predictable that Jacob Zuma and his allies are going to use their new position to ensure that he does not have to face the 783 allegations of corruption against him in court."

++++++++
Exactly where does Jacob Zuma stand of “land-reform”, and what can be expected when he ascends to the Presidency of South Africa? Here’s information from his 7 September 2008 speech that makes it fairly clear. - Ed
++++++++

JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA Sep 07 2008 18:56

South Africa's slow-moving land-reform programme, aimed at returning land seized by the white minority after 1913 to black people, has so far failed to eradicate poverty, African National Congress president Jacob Zuma said on Sunday.

"Our land reform has so far not been linked to rural development," Zuma said in a speech reported on Sunday on public broadcaster SAFM. "Our view is that changes in land ownership have not transformed social relations and have not succeeded in combating rural poverty and promoting rural development," he told graduating students of the University of Zululand in eastern KwaZulu-Natal. "We need to empower the poor through land reform," said Zuma, the party's presidential hopeful in the 2009 poll.

++++++++
Perhaps the most telling of all is the last sentence of this quote from Zuma’s 24 June 2008 speech at the Age of Turbulence International Investment Conference - Ed
++++++++

   “We will continue to promote broad-based black economic empowerment (BBBEE) aimed at broadening and de-racialising the ownership and control of productive assets by black people, women and youth. We will promote new black enterprises, which are engaged in the production of goods and services.
   We will also prioritise skills development and education to support the BBBEE and affirmative action policies we are undertaking.  We have realised that most established businesspeople see value in our BBBEE policy, as it is an investment into the future. No economic growth can be sustainable if the majority of the population is excluded from the economic mainstream.
   The magic word in BBBEE should be "broad based". We need to broaden the empowerment, and encourage new entrants into the economic arena. Another area of interest for most potential investors is our policy on property ownership, especially ownership by foreigners. Our country has in the past few years attracted many foreign property owners. Our policy as adopted at our 52nd national conference in Polokwane, took this into cognisance. We resolved that the state must, with immediate effect, regulate but not prohibit ownership of land by non-South Africans.
   This regulation should take into account the country's commitment to land reform, restitution, redistribution and access to land. The ANC has also resolved that we should discard the market-driven land reform and immediately review the principle of willing-seller, willing-buyer so as to accelerate equitable distribution of land.”

++++++++

What does all this sound like to me? Red Flags Everywhere! It’s exactly the type rhetoric I heard as Mugabe began his initial "whipping up" of his most militant supporters; alluding to a discarding of the "willing seller-willing buyer" provisions of the Lancaster Accords, which he had agreed to in the negotiated ending of the Rhodesian War, and heralding his implementation of forced land redistribution.

Am I alone in being concerned? Perhaps not; the South Africa Rand dropped 14% yesterday, immediately after the news release that Mbeki's was stepping down.

My gut feeling is that those who want to hunt South Africa should not put their trip off too long!

Ed
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Offline bill langer

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 07:54:00 PM »
I agree with what you see here Ed.

Offline Mr.Magoo

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 09:18:00 PM »
Ray - The world has changed significantly from the 1930's (the current financial crisis notwithstanding).  I also don't find significant similarities with Nazi Germany (even though Africans continue to kill each other in great big bloody batches every day).  Nor am I speaking of a 'coup' (which this isn't in the classical sense).

I'm speaking of the fact that SA is Africa's largest economy (though a two tiered economy), with the primary tier firmly ensconced in the multinational business world.  Large multinationals in industries like banking and mining wield great influence on politics (either via formal or backdoor channels) and the 'new' leadership won't want a total breakdown of their comfortable lifestyle.  I doubt any of them wants to trade their luxury suite for a hut.

Nor am I speaking of revolutionary political ideology.  I'm speaking in terms of realpolitik (in its correct Bismark usage, not its Machiavellian connotations).

Also the 'good old days' longing I referred to had nothing to do with age.  Young, old, it didn't matter.  I was simply trying to state something politely and not too obviously.  The people I refer to were all white and have seen a country where they were safe, prosperous and in charge turned upside-down.

This weekend's Financial Times had an article about the political ouster.  Also, if you've been following general events, it seems one of SA's most pressing real problems is its rapidly aging power grid.

Anyhow, several choices for hunting in Africa exist.  I'd say they all require you to keep your eyes open.

Offline tradtusker

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 04:46:00 AM »
There will always be hunting possibilities to hunt Africa there is still a lot of hunting in zim...not much game left there..but you can still hunt some big tracks.

the power (escom) like Dave said is a big issue there's a lot of load shedding going on.

the "new" leadership will not want a total breakdown your right, but "THEY WILL GET RICHER AND THE POOR WILL GET POORER!" black or white you'v got a problem and it will play out like many other southern African country's have. irrelevant of economy etc...
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Andy Ivy

Offline Leon.R

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2008, 10:17:00 AM »
I'll be there next Monday, will see how people are taking it?
I think it might be ok, lets hope.
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Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 10:33:00 AM »
Mr Magoo,

Wow. You're sure it's changed significantly since the 1930's? Remember, you're not the only one capable of reading...that almost appears condescending of you! I don't know how old you are, but my 54 years of experience tells me that no matter how far we've "progressed" from some point in time, the more things stay the same.

Are you sure its not a coup? Never heard of a "bloodless coup"? I don't think much about Machiavelli..I'm more of a "if it looks like a duck and smells like a duck-ian" kind of guy.

I made mention of Nazi Germany in the 30's and the current situation in SA only as an example that industrialization or not, those in power can do pretty well what they want with stuff that belongs to those who are outside their favor.

I don't believe Ed was speaking to us about the nationalization of international corporations and their holdings in geopolitical terms- this is a hunting site- that would have little to no bearing on whether we could safely hunt in SA.

What he was saying is that land (read that ranches) were taken away from non blacks and the land re-allocated to the populace in Zimbabwe, and the same thing is likely to happen in SA. That has a direct impact on whether you can safely hunt SA or not, I think.

Good realpolitik-in' to you.
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Offline Jeff Sample

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 10:50:00 AM »
White landowners have seen this coming for some time in RSA. While at Melorani, we learned that there is a native land claim against their property, as well as against Howard Knott's [sp] place (Greater Kuduland). Although the Melorani claim at least is bogus (they claim to have been forced off the land in 1935, but Stewart's Grandfather bought the place, abandoned, in 1918), there did not appear to be a lot of confidence that that would necessarily work in their favor. Their hope is that all that they have put into the local area (not just money) may be what saves them, for now. From my conversations with Stewart, land is one investment that white South Africans are staying clear of.

As far as a loss of revenue giving the government pause for thought - forget it! One has only to see the extreme poverty in that country and what the ANC-run government (they have a three-quarters majority) has failed to do about it to realize that the powers-that-be have only themselves in mind; their mantra, of course, is that it's all the fault of the Whites. To make ‘em happy – give them the land. If you know anything about Zimbabwe, this is all familiar ground.

I would love dearly to return to Melorani or elsewhere in South Africa in 3-4 years, but I'm not too confident that that will be possible.
Jeff
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Offline Mr.Magoo

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2008, 11:32:00 AM »
Ray,
Yes. I'm sure the world is different than in the 30's.  I'm glad you can read.  Having been an Infantry officer once upon a time I know what a coup is, and this isn't one.  Being intertwined in the global economy is different than 1930's industrialization, so Nazi Germany has no relevance.  The point, again, being that large scale societal destabilization (which includes a large land grab) is unlikely.

Good 'duck-smellin' to you.

Offline Dr. Ed Ashby

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Re: Red Flags Everywhere
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2008, 01:29:00 PM »
Here's is excerpt from today's AP reports; a couple more Red Flags.

By DONNA BRYSON | Associated Press Writer
12:49 PM EDT, September 22, 2008
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (AP) _

African National Congress leader Jacob Zuma didn't name an interim president for South Africa as everyone expected him to do Monday, but his impish chuckle at a news conference told reporters everything they needed to know.

“Zuma said Mbeki was asked to resign to allay public concern about divisions within the governing party. "The country needs a strong and united ruling party at the helm of government, capable of galvanizing support for the government's development agenda," he explained.

Mbeki had been accused of pursuing economic growth without paying enough attention to lifting South Africans out of poverty. Zuma said Monday that ensuring growth was crucial, but so was providing education, developing job skills and ensuring blacks had access to land. It's the kind of talk likely to make business jittery about Zuma, already seen as owing his rise to support from labor and the South African Communist Party.”

The country's moral beacon, Nobel Peace Prize laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu, said he was deeply disturbed by Mbeki's axing. "The way of retribution leads to a banana republic," Tutu said Monday, voicing concern that the cloud of corruption still hangs over Zuma's head.

Ed
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