Oct/Nov a good time for Africa?

[bawana bowman]

I've got I friend that does fishing charters in Ketchikan from May to end of Sept. then guides for deer in Kansas mid Nov till end of Dec.
He just called me and said he has 360,000 air miles.
Has already talked with the airlines and was told he can use them for business class r/t tickets to South Africa.
The deal is he wants me to see if I can set up a bowhunting trip for 1 or 2 weeks to Africa, either SA or Namibia. No high fence areas, strictly fair chase. Would like to do plains game but would also consider stalking of 1 or 2 types game in an adventurous type trip.
My problem: is Oct/Nov a good time to go, and which operations would be good bets for fair chase
hunts? He isn't to up on the idea of hides on man made water holes, but is okay with hides on natural water holes.
This trip will be booked for next year, him and I and if necessary our wives.
Any help will be appreciated.
The deal is if I can plan the trip, he will cover r/t air fare for everyone!
Sounds like a good deal to me.  

[tradtusker]

Sounds like a good deal to me Harold

ill have a think and see what i can find

prob hunting that late is most of the females will be pregnant.

as for the high fence.. well about all of South Africa is high fence mate but the places are so big that it is not even an issue you will see the fence when you drive in and then again when you drive out. most of the big operations have big properties.  most of the fences are to keep things out not to keep things in and will not effect any fair chase

most of the bowhunting places are in hides and waterholes all man made. its the most efficient way to kill something and the more you kill the more the outfitter makes ...hence the reason most places do it that way.

Now Namibia has some big places that are not high fence and there are some quality outfits out there now definitely worth a look.

even though most places are out of hides speak to the PH and they are usually very willing to accommodate and hunt the way you want to hunt etc

if your after fair chase do everything walk and stalk now that would make for a great hunt

hope thats of some help to start out on

[bawana bowman]

Andy,
Any info you can provide on bow only outfitters in Namibia would be a great help.
Pregnant isn't a big deal, we both practice constraints and would only shoot worthy beasts anyhow. Don't mind waiting for a real shooter, get as much out of watching them as shooting them.
I would prefer Namibia but if need be will do a SA operation, just have to get him to understand the reasons for the fence around the property. He has to believe it is fair chase even though there are fences. But being a guide himself I think he will understand. I believe he's afraid of being on a small fenced property and feeling it's a canned hunt. Neither of us would go for that.
Any advice on Namibia or SA operations to check with would be of a great help.
Thanks

[tradtusker]

the fenced issue in South Africa is tricky mate

here are some of my thoughts;

its somewhat different to what is classed/perceived as a high fence operation here, now there are some really small places that are a bit like you would find here in the states but most are not. different place different factors

 There can be a critical mass/size to a point where the fence no longer effects the outcome of your hunt for the easier or better (sorry we might get a bit of topic here but i may help some guys or give a different look at this issue) now this is purely from a walk and stalk method of hunting, lets say you get busted by a herd of impala and they take flight the chances are very low that you will get another opportunity at them even with a rifle let alone get within the 30yards you would need to be to get a shot with a trad bow now that they are alert to your intentions. they would take hours to calm down, whether they run 200 meters and stand there watching you or if they went 5 kilometers the places are just too big for the fence to even come into play in the outcome of the hunt, now the fence may stop the animals from leaving the property no question there, but its occurs at a point that you could not humanly pursue them to, hunting on foot.  

in my opinion there are other factors that concerns me more.

 comes from the ground up, lets say for example that the property is big enough for the fence to never effect the outcome of your hunt, but its poorly managed, overstocked (so that there are more animals for you to shoot), as a result its badly overgrazed, so feed is required, usually 15 yards outside your hide, its not a salt lick or minerals that can be an important in sustaining a healthy heard through hard times, its there to keep them alive, thats why they are there daily outside your hide.
not to say that all places that feed are poorly managed some are very well managed depends, see whats there "how much EDIBLE browse or graze is there on the place"?
that should be used to determine the carrying capacity of the place along with several other factors. Alot of places are unfortunately not managed for the good of the ecosystem...but remember whats not good for the ecosystem can be good to someones pocket, humans are good at that and its a business...Big business.
 How about having the only water on the property at the hides? i even know of places that not only have the only water at the hides but they are closed off at night. Crazy hey

Ah the old Africa is almost all but gone, wish i had been around 80 years ago.

there is a compromise to hunt just about anywhere, all factor considered you do what you can.

one thing i will promise is that you will have an amazing time, Africa is a very special place, it will scare your soul with a little flickering flame that will never leave you. I wish everyone could get to experience it if only once.

   

[PZee]

Hi Harold,

One thing you've gotta remember about SA or Namibia, is they'll be hot at that time of the year, esp Namibia.  Take loads of sunblock and drink loads of water. Ask the outfit to send you the size of the farm you'll be hunting on, most of the top outfitters will have farms of 6000 to 10,000acres. They might sub-divide the farms with fences too, so ask about that. Andy is right, if you have a shot at game on a walk and stalk and spoil it, you wont have another shot at that herd/animal that day. The fences definately do not keep the animals from moving. Kudu, Impala, Bushbuck and Nyala just go straight over. Warthogs go straight through. Warthog especially do a lot of damage to fences. Really the only game that are kept in by fences are Wildebeest, Zebra and Giraffe. Good luck, I hope you have great time! Pete

[Brent Hill]

I hunted at Matlabas Game Hunters on the Matlabas River in the Limpopo region of SFA with Wilham Frost and will be returning next July.  We had 14k acres to hunt for just two hunters and only saw a fence on the way in and the way out.  I was most impressed with his and his son's emphasis on ethics and we discussed at length the measures that some outfitters take, such as turning of the water at night and introducing genetically altered species such as different colored blesbucks, to make a quick buck.  Wilham is a great to talk to and available to meet at the Dallas Safari show in January.  He has written numerous paper's on bowhunting ethics which you can read on his website.  egardless of where you go, don't book with anyone who advertises mainly rifle ....and bow.  There are too many excellent outfitters who value bowhunters, compound and traditional, to sell yourself short with anything less.  You will have the time of your life, Brent Hill

[2wfstlhunting]

One of the nicest people and a very nice low key place is Makalaan in Namibia.  I put a long story about my recent trip there on Bowsite.  I am a longbow shooter. Read what I wrote. You might find it to your liking

[tradtusker]

Ya Steve i read your story looks like you had a great trip congrats

iv heard only good things about Makalaan and it was going to be one of the ones i was going to suggest

[chrisg]

Andy should earn a salary from the African hunting countries! His advice is always so to the point and fair. The high fence and canned hunting issue has severely dented the South African industry but I would go so far as to say those who were dented the most deserved it but the collateral damage has been hard on everyone. The point  about walk and stalk on a 'reasonably sized' game farm is apt. How far in kilometres can you walk in a day hunting that way? A ten thousand hectare (a little more than 20 000 acres) game farm in the bush veld is HUGE. The comment about rifle mostly ...and bow is one to note and avoid. Been there.
It comes down to doing thorough research and spelling out clearly what you expect, be flexible too however some expectations may be 80 years too late hey Andy? Still there are fabulous places to hunt and South African hunters are passionate about our  wilderness, culture and history. Namibia and SA are both worth the trip. Check references and listen to recommendations, and you will go back again and again.
chrisg

[Steve H.]

To me the bigger issue than fences is the "put-n-take" aspect where artificial populations are created.  Inflated numbers of animals per unit area and animals that were raised (and maybe even trucked in) purposely for the slaughter.

[tradtusker]

yip i agree with that Chris,
good point about looking at a bow only operations. Iv been lied to before about a bow only place only to find out from the trackers that there had been rifle hunters there only 2 weeks before shooting the place up.
like Chris pointed out i think one of the most important things is to speak to the Ph and spell out what you want from it.

you had a chance to get out and do any hunting recently Chris?

[2wfstlhunting]

Thanks Andy, and of course I had the pleasure of reading yours, which took it to a whole other level.  Pretty much all land in Namibia has a fence at some spot, so I wouldn't get too focused on that, particularly given the ridiculous size of these properties.  The artificial feeding and the put and take aspects (where used) are definate negatives for me and that was no small part of why I liked Makalaan so much.  I am not sure of this next statement, but I strongly suspect that the Put and Take issue is a lot more common in RSA than in Namibia.  There are  thousands of animals sent to RSA from Namibia each year specifically for this reason.

Steve

[chrisg]

The 'put and take' outfits generally will have lots of hides with high animal numbers in a smaller area. This is where checking references helps a lot. The business of game farming is almost by definition a put and take affair in that the number of animals needed to take off per year to sustain the outfit means that there will not usually be enough natural increase on its own. Now here is where it can get murky, if the animals you see arrived last week and still have ear tags (joking!) and it's the middle of july, it is not going to be much fun. The better run outfits plan carefully what their oftake is going to be and restock early enough during the summer so that by the time hunting starts the animals have acclimatised. How do you know? You have to ask recent visitors to the farm. Also if the place looks heavily overgrazed and what you are seeing looks more like a feedlot/stock farm this means there is more game there than the land supports. Basically what Andy said. A dry season will mean an overgrazed look but there is a difference. We have not had a dry year for a while.

Andy, I went once only, mountain climbing w/s after wildebeest on a  stunning farm that had been rifle hunted..with a group of riflehunters!! Ha! That is why I was so far up the mountains and they stayed down near the bottom but it still did not help.It was fun anyway, the rest of the group were interesting company and we had a good trip, I came home fitter but without a wilde! They get spooky with rifles about but I did have a duiker at five yards dead to rights, not on my 'list' though and expensive. Saw a massive kudu bull and some impalas mountain reedbuck, I'm a meat hunter and was after a kudu cow or wilde. Too picky I guess.
chrisg