African Lion with BW recurve

[FerretWYO]

I take it that these fences do keep lions from roaming. In that case....... I have to agree with Ben.

[BUFF]

Originally posted by FerretWYO:
I take it that these fences do keep lions from roaming. In that case....... I have to agree with Ben.

Wow I meant to write a disclaimer at the first of my post stating, If you were uncomfortable with hunting under a high fence Please read no further.

In the 3 years it took me to put this together I contacted pretty much every goverment where there was a huntable population of Lion. getting a permit to hunt them with a recuve was not do able. Sorry if I offended anyone.

PS that is hard to take from someone who has a barn yard animal for their Avatar

[Ben Maher]

Buff ,
as a side note
if by "barnyard animals" , you are referring to Ben's avatar with the donkey in frame ... these animals are truly wild animals [ declared as pests for the massive ecological damage they do every year ]  living in some of the most remote places on earth .
they breed , live and die in the wild with rarely a fence to be seen .

i was not offended by your post but remain concerned with the future of hunting in Africa / South Africa due to some dubious and well documented hunting practices . this was in no way meant to be a reflection on your post or even meant to suggest any inclination otherwise .
" Fences " as a term just always triggers alarm bells with me as I'm sure it does with many others .

Best to you

Ben Maher

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Marty, if you could put my concerns to rest with answers, I would gratefully breathe a sigh of relief, enjoy learning something new, and congratulate you on an achievement.

Now, as for disclaimers, you really can't expect to post things in public and then have people go, "Ooh, okay, I better not read that because I might not like it." I mean, what if somebody wrote, "Disclaimer: Don't continue reading if you don't like shooting tethered animals!" Or, "Don't continue reading if you don't like reading about gutshots and non-recovery!" These are just examples of scenarios which would evoke strong responses, and disclaimers just don't cut it.

Your lion hunt doesn't offend me at all. I simply have questions about it, and would love to have my concerns allayed. Now, as for your last comment, yes, that did offend me.    

I do enjoy your hunts and respect your ability, but I simply have questions about this one.

Best regards,

Ben

[BUFF]

Ben sorry for the tackey post, please forgive me. I have been awake for 30 or so hours. The Lion was not tied druged or in a little pin. it chose to stay in the 10ac thicket but had it wanted to it could have run several miles but you are correct in that eventually a fence would have stoped it from leaving the property.

In a way I'm paying for the sins of my brothers. I had hoped that due to being in Africa for work half the year, I might have a chance to kill the big 5 with a trad bow. My problem has been and continues to be that in the past so many folks have came to Africa with under poundage bows and shot so poorly that getting a permit is next to impossible. For now I have hopes of maybe getting a permit for Elephant in Zimbabwe but I have little or no hope for a permit for leopard with trad gear. If I chose to go with a compound it is still doable but that is not my dream. If I had my choice I would have much rather hunted a free range Lion in another country. I have the time and the finances and have worked hard to be able to shoot heavy the equipment needed but no one will allow it.

Just for the record, I hunted Donkeys in Australia last year and did not get one. I was just being an ass. I have another hunt booked for Australia in june of this year
Buff

[BUFF]

sorry double post  

[Ben Maher]

Buff...on your return to Oz are hunting "Buff" ? lol...
Ben

[FerretWYO]

Originally posted by BUFF:
   

Originally posted by FerretWYO:
I take it that these fences do keep lions from roaming. In that case....... I have to agree with Ben.

Wow I meant to write a disclaimer at the first of my post stating, If you were uncomfortable with hunting under a high fence Please read no further.

In the 3 years it took me to put this together I contacted pretty much every goverment where there was a huntable population of Lion. getting a permit to hunt them with a recuve was not do able. Sorry if I offended anyone.

PS that is hard to take from someone who has a barn yard animal for their Avatar [/b]

I would be the first to say that I know nothing about hunting lions in Africa. I did not intend to offend you Marty I appolagize for doing that. I know that you would have a hard time building a fence to stop a mountian lion and it was to that which I was refering my original question. I know that you worked hard for this animal and that you completed this hunt by the best means that you could and were aloud. I was merely wondering a few of the same things that others were and hoping to learn a little. I respect your accomplishments and talent. I always enjoy your hunts Marty.

I appolagize for any wrong doing.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

No worries, mate.

All the best on your next trip over this way! I'm sure you're probably scheming to nail a water buffalo, and I'm sure you'll nail one.

Cheers,

Ben

[BUFF]

Originally posted by FerretWYO:
 

Originally posted by BUFF:
   

Originally posted by FerretWYO:
I take it that these fences do keep lions from roaming. In that case....... I have to agree with Ben.

Wow I meant to write a disclaimer at the first of my post stating, If you were uncomfortable with hunting under a high fence Please read no further.

In the 3 years it took me to put this together I contacted pretty much every goverment where there was a huntable population of Lion. getting a permit to hunt them with a recuve was not do able. Sorry if I offended anyone.

PS that is hard to take from someone who has a barn yard animal for their Avatar [/b]

I would be the first to say that I know nothing about hunting lions in Africa. I did not intend to offend you Marty I appolagize for doing that. I know that you would have a hard time building a fence to stop a mountian lion and it was to that which I was refering my original question. I know that you worked hard for this animal and that you completed this hunt by the best means that you could. I was merely wondering a few of the same things that others were and hoping to learn a little.

I appolagize for any wrong doing. [/b]

you did nothing wrong the rudness was all mine  :rolleyes:

[BUFF]

Originally posted by Ben Kleinig:
No worries, mate.

All the best on your next trip over this way! I'm sure you're probably scheming to nail a water buffalo, and I'm sure you'll nail one.

Cheers,

Ben

yes maybe 2  :p   it looks like Austrilia may be my next base of operations. should be spending alot of time in Mackay over the next couple of years. chasing donkeys, milk goats and camels doesn't sound that exciting but I'm sure I will be hard after them.

[chrisg]

This is an interesting thread and perfectly illustrates the problems ethical hunters have dealing with the fallout of the unethical actions of the few. I have posted before on 'hunting' lion in SA.  Now the chickens have come home to roost. So a lion hunt in SA is going to be high fence, the bigger the area the better. Buff, you are indeed a very good shot and we have seen your vids of other hunts. From what you have written it is clear you are following a dream and trying to do it right. 5000 acres is not huge but in that part of the kalahari depending on the thickness of the bush (it varies) 5000 acres can be enough, more is far better. The lions you mention sound to me like they are familiar with humans. That many in such a 'small' area and the willingness of the lion to stalk and follow you make me wonder. So right about rangers shooting them on sight, lions were and perhaps still are regarded as problem animals, livestock farmers hate them.  
chrisg

[marlon]

Buff that's a Beaty liones great job! Cheers Marlon

[marlon]

Buff that's a Beaty liones great job! Cheers Marlon

[Featherbuster]

Great story.

[Tim Fishell]

That is awesome!!  Congrats on a huge accomplishment and thanks for sharing.  I enjoyed the story very much and hope one day I get to see the wilds of Africa!  

[tradtusker]

truth of the matter is people like Marty are paying for the survival of our African Wildlife. Period!

as for the Ethical side thats up to YOU, i know you guys don't mean to push your ethics onto Marty, but make sure you have an informed opinion before making a harmful statement.  

It was not brought on by our selves as hunters, many here are just misinformed if i had more time i would love to explain and give you facts from the ground, and you would come away with a real understanding of thats actually happening out there.
but right now i have a wedding to get to

maybe at a latter point we can discuss it in a different thread without getting off topic here

Marty Congrats on a Beautiful Cat!

[fentiger]

Congrats, buff.
  Buff thank you for allowing me to live vicariously through your hunts. Ps have heart set on buff hunt in OZ early 2011. Loved OZ on my first untrad [recurve only missing wheels] hunt and Paul Rae at Upindi rules!

[Ray Hammond]

Andy,  you may want to get into this on another thread, but you've stated that those who think this was brought on by hunters are mistaken, then you'll have to deal with that here.

I know PH'S in Africa...I have known them for years....as I stated in my post, it's always more complicated than we want to make it, but you can't tell me that hunters didn't have a lot to do with what happened- the hunters PAID to hunt in ways that were perverted and those hunts didn't play well in front of the non hunting public-

or are you saying all of this was George Bush's fault?

It takes two to tango- operators don't offer perverted hunts very long if no one buys them.

And no, I'm not saying Marty's hunt specifically was perverted- but there's tons of irrefutable evidence out there to corroborate what I'm saying- put that together with politically active animal rights activists with lots of money and politicians who know which way the wind is blowing, and you have a recipe where 10% or less of the world's population (hunters) are going to be painted with a broad brush to look bad because of the actions of a few ne'er do wells and we came out the losers- no surprise, and no way to blame others but ourselves.

If we don't police ourselves, someone is going to do it for us.

[TxAg]

More power to you.  I already read this thread on another site and had to read it again. Sounds like a fun hunt, and that's what it's all about...having fun!

If I had the skills and bills, I'd be doing the same thing. One day