Traditional?

[Ramsey]

I am new to traditional hunting, but the difference I feel between the to differ kinds
of bows is like no other the feel you have out there is hard to explain but I sure you guy get it.

[Labs4me]

George S.:

               
That's precisely my point. In my view there is only archery and NON-traditional archery. I do not feel that recurve and longbow shooters should be saddled with the onus to create a separate classification for bows that have been around for 10,000+ years.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I shoot a recurve and a longbow. People who shoot bows with wheels, cables and cams shoot NON-traditional bows.

[horatio1226]

What is the diffence between high tech chemical compound glues, fiberglass,aluminum arrows, carbon arrows and machinery to improve performance, and wheels, cables and cams to improve performance? Frankly, most of the bows that I see in this forum were not around 10,000 years ago. Isn't it just a matter of degrees of difference? I just can't picture a man 10,000 years ago seeing a Black Widow bow for the first time saying "nope, can't shoot that,too hi tech, not trad enough. I think I'll stick with my stick". I'm not sure that I understand the animosity towards archery evolution. Its simply a personal choice. If I were hungry, the choice would be easy.Since I'm overweight, I'll go trad.

[sharps4590]

I've read every post and there is much wisdom to be digested.  There are a couple things for me.  First, the argument that "if they would have had it they would have used it" fails.  They didn't have it so they used what was available and learned to use it successfully....or starved.  We aren't likely to starve.

I like to do things the old way.  I shoot a recurve or longbow, often vintage, my muzzleloaders are flintlocks and my fly rods are bamboo, often vintage, and my fly line is often silk.  I honor and venerate the woods skills our forbears had and find it sad that so many today use the modern high-tech stuff because "it's so much easier", (I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line).  I disdain compounds and in-line muzzleloaders with all their gadgets and gizmos for that very reason.  If that makes me an elitist, so be it.  I much prefer to call it a purist.  Technology can't be substitued for skill and knowledge and that's what the marketers are doing, successfully it appears.  

If the way I hunt and fish and my choice of tools can be called traditional then evidently I am. I do it because it increases the challange, makes the journey much more meaningful and the taste of successes are much sweeter.  

I just like to do things the old way.  If it were easy, everyone would do it....and I don't much care for crowds.

I didn't do a very good job.....for me this is a difficult thing to express exactly....ain't sure it can be expressed exactly!

Vic

[Labs4me]

harps4590:

You did a fine job of expressing your perspective. And to paraphrase your point- although many of us consume what we kill, most of us do not hunt to survive as Mesolithic man was forced to do. Following in the footsteps of Pope, Young, Bear, Hill, et al, we originally chose to walk this path for the challenge. At least we originally used the notion of this SELF-IMPOSED CHALLENGE to convince wildlife agencies to give us significantly longer hunting seasons than those who chose to hunt with less challenging weapons. With regard to this pursuit of CHALLENGE, the recurves and longbow I shoot today - high tech glue or not - are no less CHALLENGING to shoot than bows used thousands of years ago.

Left unchecked, "Degrees of difference" most often have the effect of taking us further away from our established goals. I believe that all too often, bowhunters forget - or worse, enter the woods without ever knowing - what that original goal was. If someone truly believes that cams, cables, triggers, laser sights and 85% let-offs, (which is really just a way to reduce the CHALLENGE and effort associated with physically holding the full weight of a bow by 85%, isn't it?) are "degrees of difference" that are good for bowhunting, in my experience there is no convincing that person otherwise.

I often wonder how many bowhunters would be in the woods today if the non-traditional bow was never invented?

[horatio1226]

Nicely said Labs. I'm not sure how many hunters would be in the woods if they had to hunt with the bows of the distant past. These weapons were primitive. Not to mention arrows and stone points. There is a huge difference between modern trad bows and bows of even primitive tribes of today, no less thousands of years ago when the established goal was still to kill game. IMO. This discussion is fascinating!Thanks.

[Ia Hawkeye]

Well said Vic !

[Shawn Leonard]

It means friends and good times and shooting whatever you wish as long as it does not have cables and wheels I could care less what ya shoot and even less what ya think of what I shoot, to me it is about everything and more than has been written above. Shawn

[ishiwannabe]

I am seeing more and more about feelings, instincts, and following the footsteps of others. It makes me lean towards the fact that it isnt equipment at all...
Remember, I started this thread asking what you define as traditional, and why. Im not bashing wheelies, modern stick bows, or anything. I know traditional was coined after the invention of the compound, but it is a word strictly associated with stickbows and the like today....before that, we were all just bowhunters.
AWESOME RESPONSES EVERYONE!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well after reading all these posts, and looking at the original question of "What do you define as traditional, and why." you have a loaded question there ishi....It has stimulated some good thought provoking emotions out there too.

I started into this "Traditional form of archery" about the same time you did last year. I've considered my self an archer and a bow hunter for many years prior though...The coined phrase "traditional bow" or "Traditional Archery" was born with the evolution of of the modern compound bow. in 1973 Martin even came up with a half recurve, half cam bow called a "Dyna Bow"....i had one myself not long ago hanging on the wall....very few of them exist today, because most of them eventually blew up and came apart.....Terry hit it on the nose...that was where the line was drawn between the two....

I myself, like you James, have opened up a door into the past it seems....Alice through the looking glass if you will....

Trad Gang was my introduction into a fascinating and wonderful group of people that have chosen to fore go the modern evolution of the compound bow, and have given traditional archery many different meanings in many ways....It was a truly humbling experience for me to abandon one of the fastest compound bows in the world, and pick up a twisted up old Ben Pearson for the first time.... The adventure so far has taken me to the roots of my skill as a craftsman, as well as back to the very roots of my woodsman ship skills necessary to hunt with a stick and string. I have revived the very essence of my father....my grand father, and his grandfather before him.... i believe in my case...the word "traditional" fits nicely with archery for me right now.... Where will it go from here? Awwwww...but i love a good mystery

i will write more later....my bowl of beans is getting cold.....Kirk

[ishiwannabe]

Nice journey isnt it Kirkll??

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good beans! The old fashion navy bean soup with a rasher of home grown bacon, and a bit of something else i'm unsure of.....excellent meal! Just add corn bread....

i don't intend to carry on much longer with my post here. but i feel the need to add a few things. I am stuck in an ever changing society with the rest of you folks out there. the modern world we live in is so fast paced, and just eking out a living seems much more complicated than it needs to be. its so easy to get caught up in the flow, you take for granted the simple things in life some times. Traditional archery, and going back to basics is a great escape for me....it makes you appreciate things more too...i have always worked my hands in wood...to make a living, and to search my soul as well.... the challenge to your skill level as you slowly become a master is intriguing, but not paramount. its your thought processing and the patience you obtain during the journey that is important most to me....whether it be building a bow from a stave and using sinew for backing, or using modern day shop equipment to build the glass laminate bows....its a fascinating trade all unto itself.....just the physics alone is mind boggling....even to an experienced woodworker....

Over the last year i have been in a constant state of being humbled by this adventure into traditional archery. The comments i received from others over the last year that this "traditional archery can be more than just shooting arrows with no sites or wheels, It can be a whole way of life for some." This i have heard from many folks now and was absolutely right....

Is it just using a bow without wheels and no site pins?

Is it a state of mind?

Is it a challenge?

Is it an escape to nature?

 A personal boycott of the evolution of archery perhaps?

 Is it a humbling spiritual enlightenment?

I'm thinking this hits the highlights for most folks that frequent this site....but traditional archery is what ever you want it to be.....

for me personally...all of the above. Kirk

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by ishiwannabe:
Nice journey isnt it Kirkll??

The journey has only just begun my friend....

life is but a circle inside a circle....an occasional tangent gives you better perspective of the limitless possibilities we hold in our hands....Kirk

[Matt E]

"A personal boycott of the evolution of archery" I like this description of traditional archery! No more needs to be said. I will use your words in the future, if it is all right with you?  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Feel free Matt....that is exactly what brought me into the traditonal world....The modern archey equipment has evolved into class unto itself i'm affraid....it was fun for awhile...

You can climb in a jet sled and roar up the rivers these days at 50 miles an hour too if you want, and it's a blast!.....

i just prefer paddling a canoe, and watching an arrow in flight these days.....Kirk

[jonesy]

Well said kirk,jonesy

[horatio1226]

Using the internet to share ideas is part of the evolution of archery. Just think about the resource tradgang is and the world that opens up because of it. To learn things about traditional archery. To access  wood species and equipment that you wouldn't easily have access to, is the evolution of archery.To be able to make your equipment better, and more effective. To be able to learn things from people all around the world. To draw new people to the tradition,to make it stronger, bigger and better is the evolution. I, too love the things that Kirk loves.
Can't avoid the evolution if archery, we are all part of it. Maybe we just want to stop at wheels and pulleys.

[Mr.Chuck]

traditional to me is pitting your instinct against your quarries instinct.  Of course I use a longbow and whatever arrow I can get to do the job. Be it woodies or high-tech carbons! It seems that equipment dictates "traditional". The hunting instinct is the same whether you use stick, wheel, or fire-stick! It's the mentality that changes!

[sharps4590]

Kirk....I wish you and I were neighbors!

Vic

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by horatio1226:
Using the internet to share ideas is part of the evolution of archery. Just think about the resource tradgang is and the world that opens up because of it. To learn things about traditional archery. To access  wood species and equipment that you wouldn't easily have access to, is the evolution of archery.To be able to make your equipment better, and more effective. To be able to learn things from people all around the world. To draw new people to the tradition,to make it stronger, bigger and better is the evolution. I, too love the things that Kirk loves.
Can't avoid the evolution if archery, we are all part of it. Maybe we just want to stop at wheels and pulleys.

Nicely put Brian....i humbily admidt my love for this web site and all the companionship and knowlege i've gleaned here...maybe you are right in that respect concerning of the evolution of archery.... this is pretty darn nice to sit in my chair in Oregon and chat with folks all over the world that share my passion for this sport and other outdoor activities....                        

I try to always keep an open mind...even if i am an opininonated old cuss at times....

Hey Vic.....I never seen the ozarks before...maybe i'll come visit you some time.

i took a trip to illinois this fall to do my first white tail hunt with Jonesy....Wow! talk about culture shock! i got a story coming up on that trip i'm writting....

Kirk