Are Grizzlystiks worth the money?

[magills]

Well put Ed/Tim,  I guess that maybe the rabbit was six days old?

[Labs4me]

Cajuntec,

Please don't think I was trying to call you out or anything like that. I just happened to remember a conversation that I had with Ed at ABS when he clarified the gpi issue with me. Like you, I am just used to dealing with strait shafts and either looking up or calculating gpi numbers. I figured you must have just forgot about the taper and didn't want anyone to make the same calculation mistake I did a year ago.

[cajuntec]

Labs4me,
Oh no my brother!  I'm not thinking that at all!  I'm thanking you for correcting my mistake, as I wouldn't want Otto or anyone else that read my post to follow bad info, which is what I was giving out, since I had completely forgot about the taper causing that weight variance throughout the shaft.  I greatly appreciate your help and info.  No offense taken at all, and I really do thank you for posting.

Tim Schoenborn,
Thanks for posting Ed's reply.  The man really is a true class act from every dealing I've had with him.  Always polite and helpful.  

Ed,
If you get around to reading this - excellent reply!  I know business owners sometimes are way too busy to reply on websites like this, and for you to take the time out of your busy day to address the concerns is really awesome.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again - you're a true professional, and I for one, appreciate all you do.

BTW... Ed at Alaska Bowhunting Supply also sells more than just the Grizzly Stik shafts.  I recently bought some Sealskin shelf material from him (AWESOME stuff), as well as beaver balls for the string, etc...  First class business all the way!

All the best,
Glenn

[cajuntec]

Originally posted by Footed Shaft:
Glenn,how straight have you found them to be ?? Like i said before alot of the carbon shafts i have used are not made anywhere close to the +/- straightness  tolerence of aluminum shafts. Bill

Bill,
With the Grizzly Stiks, I can detect no noticable wobble on my spin tester, but I don't have any high tech tools to test the straightness - just my eye and the spin tester.

Speaking of carbons in general, I can say this though - I recently returned another brand of carbon shaft (regular parallel traditional finish carbons) to the manufacturer as 5 of them were wobbling worse than most woodies I've shot, and that truly shocked me.  I'm talking a large enough variance to be readily noticable with the eye, not just something small.

I've found the straightest arrows I've ever owned to be aluminum, but they are also the quickest to bend... and stay bent.  The BEST aluminum arrows I've ever owned were 2018's - Super Slams.  Straightest, and some of the strongest, I've ever shot.  I never did have a single one bent that I could tell on my spin tester.  Unfortunately, Easton stopped making the Super Slam in the 2018 size... so I moved on.

Straightness is all relative to me though.  I've shot "crooked" wood arrows that flew perfectly to where I was aiming, and I've seen people on this site and others shoot such things as rose shoots, etc...  Those things don't even look close to straight... but somehow the archer gets them to fly.  Then I've had carbons that looked completely straight, that flew crooked as can be.  I can't explain it.  I just have a pile marked "shooters" and a pile marked "next years tomato stakes".      

All the best,
Glenn

[foudarme]

sorry sir not to have writen for saying how much I was disappointed by those shafts but it's easily comprehensive...I bought what was considered as the pinacle of the shafts and it has never be the case for me, so I let them down after 2 monthes of intensive tests and a bow ruined, what would you have wish me to do...that I ask to be refund? I have lost a bow that I loved it was sufficient for me, the story was ended, since I have found much more better elsewhere...but I think that I earned the right to write what I think of these shafts if someone ask to the users what they think about it...

So,I maintain what I had wrote:

- the nocks which have been sent to me doesn't fit perfectly the insert nock, there is maybe 2 mm between the end of the insert and the end of the nock's cone, it's a fact, I even tried to fulfilled them in adding more glue inside the nock...I will try to show this through pictures next week when I will be back at home..so if you think that there is no relation between this fact and my bow explosion it's your right, but I have shot thousands of arrows with this bow before and never get any nock explosion so there is obviously a tiny link between your nocks and what occured... More of that I have get 2 other nocks' explosion with 2 other bows with these nocks during my tests, what is the main reason why I stopped completely to use them. Before this in 15 years of archery I had get only one nock explosion, it's a curious "coincidence". The target I used during this tests is a u stuff bag fulfilled with old clothes, its a very soft target with great arrow retention capacity.
At last, the nock cracking has not occured at the lips level of the nocks but at the cone level...I am not certain to have keep them but if I have done it, I will post pics of them. The glue used is a bi composant glue with resine and strenghtener in 2 different tubes.


- I have tested these shafts with bare shaft tuning on 7 different bows: a 86#@28 french recurve, a 80#@28 silvertip; a 82#@ 28 silvertip; a 90#@28 french light RD LB; a 95#@28 BW MA silver anniversary; a 100@28 french light RD LB and a 79#@28 breed fox...they only fly well on the breed and the 86@28 french recurve...for all the others they were too stiff even with the heavier brass insert and a 250gr field point...so I spine tested them and understood when I found a 0.130 deflection on the weak point of a shaft, it's too a fact...it lacks just a little bit for they fly perfectly well on the silvertips, I think a 400gr broadhead would have maybe permit this...but I have no field points of that weight and I think not to be alone in this case...
I have too made a few shots (no bare shaft tuning, just a test) with them on my border Khan xp30 70#@28...too stiff again..

- the brass inserts that I have recieved are smallest than the arrow external diameter, that's equally a fact...I will post pics too.

- so I think that at the difference of all the other shafts that these shafts are not versatile...you have quite the right not to share this point of view, but a customer who wants to buy these shafts for the first time must to know that he could not put an illuminated nock on it, a wheight tube in it or use all the standard inserts on the market...for you it's normal cause these shafts are common in your country but in mine they are very unusual and I have never seen them before I have recieved them (as I didn't know that they need a special nock insert) so I think that it must be known before buying them...so you perfectly know that putting a weight tube can be asked for other purposes that  increasing the penetration as, in my case, to get the sufficient weight (10gr/lb) to shoot an arrow enough heavy for protecting the bow ie 100lb = 1000gr arrow...it's difficult to get your extra weights when one live at the other side of the earth...so versatility is important.

- I maintain that the external finish doesn't resist as on the other shafts...that the first time of my life that I ruined arrow when they slide each on the others, I have never noticed it on all the carbon and alluminium shaft that I have used before (XX78-75: 2020, 2317, 2219, 2117,2018,2419, 2514, 2613; CE 6075; GT 3555, 5575, 7595) or since (GT BG 100+)... I shoot each days my 50 arrows since many years, I have owned more than 50 different bows and I keep a permanent collection of 30 bows, I make all my strings, so I think to know just a little bit about shooting, shafting and bare shaft tuning...

so for me I maintain that these safari shafts are the worst I have used, I will not make a desease for that but never use them anymore.

however happy new year to everybody, in my country it is 1h00 AM.

[Shawn Leonard]

Can someone address my concern? Which is about them having a stiff side due to the way they are made. I was told I had to roll them on a flat surface and mark the point at which they laid on the table and this would give me the stiffest point and also the thickest. Is this correct or not? I may give them another go if I get more positive info. Shawn

[foudarme]

roll them in your bathroom in soap water after having obstruct them at each side and you will find the stiff side bending towards the bottom

[cajuntec]

Shawn,
Mine do have a definite spine, just like a fishing rod blank would have.  PLEASE do not take this as the comment that someone else made on another site that Ed had to address (see his response on page 3 to that comment).  I am simply saying that they do seem to have a definite spine, and I tested the ones I have, just as I would do if I were building a custom fishing rod and was looking for the effective spine in order to line up the guides correctly.  I put one end on a table, and hold the other end on the palm of my hand and bend the shaft slightly with my other hand in the middle while rolling the shaft on the tip that is on the table.  You will feel the shaft "jump" to the spine.  I am unsure how Grizzly Stiks are made, but I am assuming the fibers are somehow wrapped around a mandrel in order to make a tapered shaft.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no getting around the "spine" that will occur.  By spine, in this instance, I am refering to the "stiff side" that you mentioned.  In fishing rod building, that is what I've always heard referered to as the "effective spine", and good rod builders always try to find it to line up the guides so that the rod won't twist sideways under pressure.  That is why I always put the spine on top of the rod, so the rod bends away from it perfectly, and doesn't make the rod twist in my hands... but I digress... so back to the subject...

I seriously don't see a problem with that, as I just checked my Gold Tip Traditional 3555's and 5575's, and they do the same thing - they have a effective spine on them too.  

One thing I have never tried is to see whether a carbon (any carbon) would bare shaft any differently if I turned the spine up,down,left or right.  I may have to do a little bit of experimenting with this.  Dang it!  More testing!     :D  

Even with POC arrow shafts - I always turn the grain so that the lines are "pointed outward" only on the top of the shaft - never on the bottom.  I hope that makes sense.  If not, I'll post a picture of what I am talking about.

All the best,
Glenn

[cajuntec]

Sorry - hit reply instead of edit.

[cajuntec]

I think I may have just figured something else out that may be of interest to you all shooting Grizzly Stiks that may want to try a different nock setup:

The nock diameter, as I measure it, is a hair over .2155 by my calipers measurements.

Easton's G-Nock Uni-Bushings for the 1416 size aluminums should be .21555 if I'm calculating this right - 14/64 (outside diameter) = .21875, minus a wall thickness of 16/1000 x 2 = .0032.

Subtract the wall thickness from the arrows outside diameter to get the inside diameter of .21555

I've got tons of G-Nocks from other arrow projects, and I really like shooting them.  I might just have to buy a pack of Eastons 1416 G-Nock Uni-Bushings and check this out.

Dont' take this the wrong way - I don't see anything wrong with the factory supplied nocks... but I like to tinker, and love the G-Nocks... so I think I'll try this out.

Just another option for those wanting a little something different.

All the best,
Glenn

[Bjorn]

Rolling them on a table did not show the stiff side so, I rolled them in my spine tester and; eh voila!
I was looking for a 650 grain arrow for my ACS CX and the Sitkas were too light and the Alaskans too heavy for my 48# bow. I'm a wood guy, and I decided to try carbon to see what all the hoopla' was about, so I found out and now I'm back to wood.
The customer service was great, the products were top notch; but it did not work for me-for you it might be a different story.

[Labs4me]

Last year I took the carbon plunge and had decent, though not exceptional results using heavy FOC Gold Tips with Wensel Woodsmans at the business end. In terms of DURABILITY, I can honestly say that I ended up destroying just as many GTs over the course of a year of shooting as I would normally have went through XX78 2216s. For the extra money, I had hoped they would have been more durable. They were not. End of story!

I am now considerring trying Carbon Express or Grizzly Safaris but, my teeny tiny brain is having a difficult time summarizing the various opinions expressed on this thread to arrive at a general consensus.

I have a two straight forward questions pertaining to the Safari:

1.  Using a 125 grain Zwickey Eskimo glued to a 75, 100, or 125 grain steel adaptor, can I get the weight of a 29 1/4" Grizzly Safari up to 600 grains?

2.  Is a Grizzly SAFARI any more (or less) DURABLE than any of the other more common, LESS EXPENSIVE carbon shafts (Gold Tips, Carbon Express, Beman MFX, etc.)? At $120 a dozen, which is about $40 more a dozen than the Gold Tips, I would expect these arrows to be considerably more durable.

[Labs4me]

See, I told you I have a teeny, tiny brain. In my post above, I meant SITKAS, not Safaris. Sorry for the confusion.

[Tim Schoenborn]

Monty what are the specs of the bow you plan on shooting these out of?

Tim

[deerfly]

I still have a half dz or so of the original 50-80's from the pre-patent infringement days. Don't know about the newer models but my 50-80's definitely have a spine side like a fishing rod blank.

In my experience they are a bit stiff for the rated wt range and shoot much better for me in bows 55+. They are very tough and high quality shafts though. As to whether they're worth the money, I think it comes down to how much you're willing to spend on a shaft and how you use them. If they're primarily big-game shafts a dz should last several seasons. Personally, I don't make enough money to use them on squirrels.  

[Labs4me]

Tim,

I have a matching pair of Widows - a longbow and a recurve - both 52.5 pounds at my 28 1/2" draw (I cut my arrows to 29 1/4"). I like shooting heavy arrows - usually 12-12.5 gpi, finished.

These bows are new to me (last spring) and I ended up shooting Gold Tips because by adding or subtracting 40 grains using the brass weight adaptor system, I was able to shoot the same arrow from both bows. The recurve shoots harder (faster) than the longbow and thus required less weight up front to increase the spine a bit. I was shooting 590 grain, 29 1/4" GTs from the recurve; and the same arrows from my longbow, except at 630 grains.

What has me curious about the Grizzly Sitkas is the tapered technology. I'm wondering if I might just be able to shoot the same arrow from both bows, without having to screw around with the weight adaptors?

[Labs4me]

Tim, to be a bit more descriptive I was shooting 5575 GTs with 125 grain woodsmans glued to 125 steel srew-in adaptors.

The 29 1/4" shafts and inserts were 285 grains

The Woodsmans/Adaptors were 250 grains

nocks/maxi-feathers 20 grains

285+250+20 = 555grains

Recurve... 555+40 more grains = 595 grains

Longbow....555+80 more grains = 635 grains

[Tim Schoenborn]

Hey Monty..........

I think you "CAN" shoot the same arrow from both bows with a simple weight change in the field tip or broadhead head. (weights of each)

I think if you want to be in the 600 Grain Range I would go with the Alaskans. With those arrows cut to 29 1/4" with Ed's standard brass insert with a head weight in the 125, 150 Grain area you are going to be real close to the 600 grain area you are looking at.

And these arrows can take a pounding trust me. The issue with these arrows is the fact that a lot of conventional arrow wisdom goes out the window. I personally shoot Alaskans out of all my bows and all it requires is a head change. I am not going to mess around with weights and epoxy and this and that.

That is the real beauty of this arrow design and product. I have found for me all I have to do is get close in total arrow weight and then it is nothing more than a simple weight change in regards to head weight. Only variance is that I like to shoot around 8 Grains Per Pound out of my bows for the speed. But my lightest bow is 75lbs also.

I am not sure where you are in Michigan but you are welcome to come to my place and take a look at these arrows and shoot them. I have some Alaskans we can get down to the low 600 Grain area by reducing field tip weight. They just are going to be a little long is all but I would bet they fly perfect!

Hope this helps.

Tim

[cajuntec]

Originally posted by Labs4me:


1.  Using a 125 grain Zwickey Eskimo glued to a 75, 100, or 125 grain steel adaptor, can I get the weight of a 29 1/4" Grizzly Safari up to 600 grains?

2.  Is a Grizzly SAFARI any more (or less) DURABLE than any of the other more common, LESS EXPENSIVE carbon shafts (Gold Tips, Carbon Express, Beman MFX, etc.)? At $120 a dozen, which is about $40 more a dozen than the Gold Tips, I would expect these arrows to be considerably more durable.

Wish you would have posted this question prior to me cutting my Sitka yesterday.  I have another one, so I'll check with your numbers.  Right now, I have a Sitka cut to 28 1/2" (just the shaft- no nock, no insert), and it weighs 306 grains.  Add a 125 Eskimo and we would be at 431 grains. Add your nocks / maxi-feathers at 20 grains, and we are now at 451 - about 150 shy of what you are looking for so far, but if we throw in that 125 grain steel adapter - you are now at 576 grains, and my arrow is 1 inch shorter than what you are looking for.  The heaviest of those 1" pieces I kept in a little receptical by my arrow saw was 12 grains, so if you add that in, you come up with 588.  So by my calculations, the answer to that question would be no - you're going to fall about 12 grains short of 600.

I hesitate to even bring this up, as Ed has been so helpful for me, but I cannot in all honesty pass up this information, especially since you are asking about total grain weight and trying to reach 600.  I have another new shaft that I got from him the other day, and this new shaft weighs 40 grains lighter than the previous two new ones.  If you were to get ahold of something like that shaft, it would put your final weight over 50 grains shy of your targeted weight.  I emailed Ed yesterday about the weight difference, but due to the holiday, I don't expect to hear back from him today either.

I cannot answer your second question with any experience.  It would be pure speculation.  But I will say that the Gold Tips that I've purchased recently don't seem to be the same quality and strength as those that I've purchased in the past.  I used to consider Gold Tips "indestrucable" up until this year, but for some reason, my new ones just aren't holding up.  The comparison for me is simple - I have quite a few Gold Tips (before they started putting the colored identifying wrap on them - just black shafts with gold writing) that I bought YEARS ago, and have used them extensively on the 3D range, backyard practice, and hunting.  I have arrows from that group that have taken deer and are still fully usable.  But... since they were a few years old, and I wanted something new, I bought new 5575 Expeditions (5 of 6 fly like poop), 5575 XT's (10 of the original dozen from this year remain), and 3555 Trad blems (which I returned 6 of to the factory a few weeks back for replacement as 5 were warped and one had nicks on it - haven't seen replacements or heard back from them since).  

I haven't been two overly impressed with GT this year, and that is a hard thing for me to say, as I have been a long-time GT fan.  I'm still hoping that the factory will make things right as promised on the GT Traditional shafts, but it's been much longer than I anticipated, so I don't know.  The lady I spoke to is very polite, and seemed to be very concerned with replacing my trad shafts, but when I mentioned that a 5575 I shot through a deer snapped cleanly in half when it hit the ground on the other side (dirt, no rocks), she said that was "normal".  It's never been "normal" in my past experiences, so I was a bit confused on that one.  Maybe my past experiences with carbons on a pass-thru were just lucky.  I don't know.  

Due to those experiences, I've started looking at other avenues this year, thus the Grizzly Stik's, as well as the AD Trad-Lites.  I have both now, and will experiment for the next few months with them before making a decision.  Gold Tips are still not "out" of the equation - after all.... I still have 17 here, as well as 6 that I'm hoping will be replaced soon.

I did a poll a while back on Traditional finish carbons... the Carbon Express kind of ran away with the most votes.

All the best,
Glenn

[cajuntec]

Tim,
You posted while I was writing that long disertation above.   :D    I think you are right - he might be better off going with the Alaskans, but I don't own any of them to help him make the call on weight.  Nice offer you made there.
All the best,
Glenn