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Author Topic: Y carbon??  (Read 570 times)

Offline stuckum

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Y carbon??
« on: December 29, 2007, 07:16:00 PM »
Just wanted to know why some people shoot carbon over wood or aluminum arrows. Been thinking of switching to carbon but I can't come up with a good enough reason to. Are they as Constance as aluminum?? Thanks

Offline Wild Willie

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2007, 07:19:00 PM »
They dont bend and are tough as nails
Billy

Offline Bowmania

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 07:32:00 PM »
Lighter equals flatter shooting.  Penetration is not all it's cracked up to be, unless you don't have it.  And usually when you don't have it you made a bad shot.  Not sure if I should have put that "usually" in the last sentence.  A well placed arrow only has to worry about going through ribs.  And since 80 ot 90+% of this chat is about whitetails any legal (35lbs in WI) bow and a cut on contact BH will cut that rib.

I suspect a lot of people use carbon for penetration due to it's stiffer and smaller diameter properties.

Bowmania
I'm not putting up with this guys shit and dogging me.

Offline defiant 1

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 07:44:00 PM »
Better penetration,you can add or take away weaght,it's eather broken or not(no in between)don't warp,very close tolerances(if you can tel the dif,you'r a better shot than me)
many more reasons,but i don't type verry fast.

Offline rg176bnc

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 07:50:00 PM »
I was cleaning out my truck today and put 3 on top of the cab and forgot about them.  I heard them fall but couldnt get stopped befor I ran over all three of them.  When I got to work I shot all three.  There still perfect.  That says it all. You can also change their weight w/ the screw in weights.

Offline Jeff Strubberg

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 08:39:00 PM »
More durable, far more tunable as far as weight is concerned, oscillate much less on impact (and yes, that means more penetration).
"Teach him horsemanship and archery, and teach him to despise all lies"          -Herodotus

Offline JC

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 09:11:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bowmania:
Lighter equals flatter shooting.  Penetration is not all it's cracked up to be, unless you don't have it.  And usually when you don't have it you made a bad shot.  Not sure if I should have put that "usually" in the last sentence.  A well placed arrow only has to worry about going through ribs.  And since 80 ot 90+% of this chat is about whitetails any legal (35lbs in WI) bow and a cut on contact BH will cut that rib.

I suspect a lot of people use carbon for penetration due to it's stiffer and smaller diameter properties.

Bowmania
Most of my carbons are heavier than aluminum spined for my bow...and heavier than most non-hardwood shafts.

I use carbon because they are straight or broke, as willie said they are tough as nails...$ for $, I think they are the most economical shaft available considering their durability.
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Offline Guru

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 09:19:00 PM »
JC's right on....carbons can be made as heavy as you want them......

A light arrow,is a light arrow no matter if it's al.,carbon, or wood....all can be as heavy or light as you prefer
Curt } >>--->   

"I love you Daddy".......My son Cade while stump shooting  3/19/06

Offline Bonebuster

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 09:23:00 PM »
It took me a while to finally try some carbons, and stick with them till I got the hang of them. They turned out to be the best all around arrow I have ever used.

With everything available, it is easy to get them to weigh in at almost anything you want, and the woodgrain carbons can be dressed up as nicely as
wood. I found that once I bumped the weight up on my carbons, they made the sound and feel of the shot to be just like a fat, heavy, wood shaft.

Durability can be downright amazing, and penetration in my opinion is second to none.
I believe because of the durability, they are by far the best value for the money.

For the most part, they are as consistant as aluminum shafts.(my experience anyways)

I have had a couple of carbon arrows I made, that did not fly the same as the rest. I assume it was a slight difference in spine. Never did figure it out for sure.

I started out with 1 dozen Vapor Carbonwood by Blackhawk. I bought a dozen more a year later, and have not tried another brand because there has not been a need. They are indeed, tough as nails.

Offline Richie Nell

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 09:36:00 PM »
Bonebuster...out of the 2 dozen how many do you have left?
Richie Nell

Black Widow
PSA X Osage/Kingwood 71#@31

Offline stuckum

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2007, 09:51:00 PM »
Thanks Guys. What spine should I shoot if I go with carbons? I draw a 51 lbs. on a recurve. Going to need a 28" arrow. Also I will be shooting 150grn. Woodsman broadheads.

Offline myshootinstinks

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2007, 09:53:00 PM »
I've been using Beman MFX, 400s & 500s, skinny carbons with brass inserts to add weight up front.  The penetration into dense target material is noticably greater. With some fiddling with the weight up front arrow flight & accuracy are excellent.  Probably the best choice IMO for a hunting shaft.  Still like my woodies though, will never give'm up.

Offline cajuntec

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2007, 10:16:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by stuckum:
Thanks Guys. What spine should I shoot if I go with carbons? I draw a 51 lbs. on a recurve. Going to need a 28" arrow. Also I will be shooting 150grn. Woodsman broadheads.
stuckum,
Unlike my woodies, I don't immediately cut my carbons to the "length I need".  I know what you mean though.  I shoot a certain length woody, always the same spine, and they are dead-on what I need.  However, carbons don't come in sizes like woodies do.  Most wood arrows can be ordered in a 5lb spine range.  You just won't see that in a carbon.  Carbons cover a wide range of spines within 3 to 4 sizes of a particular brand.  I always start with a full length shaft, with the manufacturers recommendation for my bow weight.  I put the size head (with a field point instead of the broadhead) I'm going to shoot with on a bare shaft, and start tuning.  I shoot a few times to determine whether they are under or over spined.  Most of the time, being full length, they are under.  If they are way under, I start cutting an inch off at a time.  If they are close to center, but just slightly under, I may start cutting a half inch off at a time.  I shoot several times after each cut to ensure the results are accurate, until my bare shafts are flying perfectly.  

I've got different length shafts for several different manufacturers.  As an example, my Gold Tip Traditional 3555's are full length with a bit of weight added up front to further weaken the spine for my 44lb longbow.  That same arrow, used in my 47lb recurve is doing something entirely different.  I've cut it down considerably, all the way to the minimum length that I'm comfortable with, removed all the extra weight, and I'm still showing slightly weak spine with my recurve.  The difference is more than the weight of the bow, as the center-shot of each bow is different.  My longbow isn't cut to center.  My recurve is.  It makes a difference in what spine you end up using for the bow.  Even adding a slightly thicker side-plate can throw off the spine required for the bow, albeit not as bad as adding tip weight most of the time.

Different brands will end up with different numbers too.  What may work in Gold Tips spine chart may not work in Carbon Express.  The best thing to do is ask people who shoot the brand you want to use, as there are several.  In Gold Tip, although I'd like to say 3555, and that is what most people probably would lean to (and Gold Tips chart calls for) I'm leaning more towards telling you to go to 5575's and adding a bit of weight up front, leaving them full length to start with.  You will end up with a heavier arrow that way, which is my preference too - although a lot of traditional bow companies recommend 8 to 9 grains per pound of bow weight, I like to try to get 10 grains per pound of bow weight for a finished arrow - in your case, I'd be looking for somewhere between 9 and 10 grains per pound, equating to a 459 - 510 grain finished arrow.  If you are undecided, you can always order a test kit from 3Rivers archery - Gold Tip has two 3555's, two 5575's, and two 7595's, and there are a few others offered, like Carbon Express' kit.

All the best,
Glenn
If at first you don't succeed.... buy newer / better equipment!

Greywolf Custom Longbow  
Chek-Mate Custom Hunter 56 Recurve

Offline stuckum

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2007, 11:39:00 PM »
Thanks Glenn that seems to be some good info. I will have to try the test kit and see what happings.

Offline Cherokee Scout

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 08:29:00 AM »
Most people miss the most important element of wht carbons penetrate better. Wood and aluminum have a noodle action from the bow to the target, they bend back and forth rapidly all the way to the target. This can be seen in a super slow motion video. Carbons recover almost instantly when shot, and if correct spine, drive straight all the way to the target. That is the main factor in better penetration. The energy of the bow is driving the shaft down range and none of the energy is wasted in the noodle action of the shaft. I believe it was Monty Browning who told a group at W. Va event that they could drop 10 lb in bow weight if they switched to carbons and still get better penetration.
John

Offline stuckum

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 02:46:00 PM »
SARTA that's interesting never heard that before but makes real good sense. Thanks

Offline stuckum

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Re: Y carbon??
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 06:41:00 PM »
Well after the HELP from uall I went ahead and switched to carbons I got some Gold tips from SRTA. I have to say that he is a great guy to deal with and just about the fastest shipper I have ever seen. Well thanks again for your help and I am going to give them a shot on the next HOg hunt.

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