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Author Topic: Gonna try River cane arra's!  (Read 18942 times)

Offline Glasspoint

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2003, 08:39:00 PM »
I'm here, Calvin!

Been working away from a 'puter for a week or so and the withdrawls were killing me  :smileystooges:  !

I've got some new stone coming tomorrow, if you want, I'll get you a couple more points.

Started working on the Martha Stewart bamboo from K-Mart and it seems to be harder to straighten that the fresh stuff.

Anybody notice the same thing? Too dry maybe?
I'll post pix when I can steal my buddy's camera again  :saywhat:    "[tunglaff]"  .
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2003, 08:48:00 PM »
thanks for that Murray...I guess I have some obvious questions.


I guess if the end was drilled out to a "tight fit" diameter of the dowel, that it would stay in during the flight, but just pull out when you removed the arrow. I think that the wrap would then only be responsible for keeping the fit "snug" and from splitting the cane. I am thinking out loud here...need a little clarity.

I guess there would be a place for both ways. the other being stuck tight and not being removable. or is that the occasion that you would just stick the point/head on the end directly?

also what do you prefer for fore shaft wood/material?
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Offline the Ferret

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2003, 09:55:00 PM »
Madpig if the arrow stays in the deer (pig,bear, turkey ...whatever) everytime that shaft strikes a tree trunk or sapling it just works the broadhead around cutting more internal stuff resulting in a quicker death IMO. As long as the heads in the critter I want it working....that's one of the reasons I like cane arrows.
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2003, 10:51:00 PM »
Interesting. I can see a few reasons for each. More discussion the better...all greek to me until I start shooting my first ones.

Hi David! sure, put me down for a few more points. Your gonna see the first one you sent me on one of these arrows likely.

could you re-hydrate the stuff a little by soaking it, to make it easier to straighten? I dont think it takes long at all to dry out. I have some of those Martha Stewerts too...doesnt seem nearly as nice as this river cane. I will try that stuff later. the ones I have are pretty thin.

I got some banding material coming from our friend Linc here to try for trade points, will try a few other mediums at the same time. seems everytime I do something for the first time I try it a few differant ways to get my "groove on."

I think the next few days will be pretty busy...will try to jam in an hour here and there.
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Offline Murray

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2003, 11:46:00 PM »
Calvin,
Like I told you cane shafts are extremely tough. Mickey makes a good point too btw with the reason to have a one piece very flexible, tough arrow. Still, in my experience there are good reasons for a foreshaft to be able come off, not necessarily all too easily either, mine do not just slip apart easily. I shot a doe several years ago from a good distance that turned and took off as the arrow struck her. I had shot her from a tree stand and the arrow had penetrated both sides almost to the feathers, it  stopped sticking out either side but not come out on the ground. When she ran away the arrow sounded like rattling a stick down a picket fence for a few seconds.  The cane shaft was on one side and the hafted head was laying on the other side of the trail a few feet farther down the trail, both pieces were still very usable and I could just stick them back together. She bled out both of the open wounds well and I found her a couple of hundred yards down the way.  Take care, Murray
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2003, 01:41:00 AM »
Since I have got everything cut to size I think I will glue in dowel for the points for this one, and attach directly to the shaft. I will try the replacable fore shafts on my next batch. How long should the foreshaft be Murray?


 I got the feelin' I'm gonna make a couple truckloads of these things. BTW...here is a shot of what I got accomplished   tonight.  

What?!! How'd that get in there! musta made a mistake I guess.   ;)  

anyways...I remembered reading somewhere (LW Archives???) or maybe here that someone used an iron and rolled the cane in a rounded slot. well...I just grabbed my flea market   iron   and started to roll the cane while I slowly moved the iron down the shaft...pushing down on the iron and rolling with the iron and my other hand. Had the iron on full heat...and I am absolutly positive that   this   works. (remember I have already reduced the nodes) since I already hand straightened...there wasnt a problem with the oddness of the lumps. I think it worked real well. forgive the fuzzy photos...I was using my teeth...ya, that's it.
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Offline Murray

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2003, 08:03:00 AM »
Calvin,
I am not going to say I invented the procedure of ironing the material in the groove of a board but it is part of the procedure I use. It's in the data I sent you the other day.  
 Take care, Murray
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2003, 09:51:00 AM »
There we go! glad you reminded me where I heard it! (I read a LOT!) I do like to give credit where credit is due.

I had a little time...and taped the ends of the cane, and drilled out the tip ends  with a 1/4" bit...nock ends with a   3/16ths  bit

then I proceeded to glue in the right size dowel in both   ends  

voila! 24 hours to dry, and I am ready to cut in some stuff!!!

yup, that iron works slick. ya'll might have to try that!
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Offline Dano

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2003, 10:12:00 AM »
Haley is a real cutie Calvin,   :knothead:
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2003, 02:58:00 PM »
Dano. no steam, just turned the heat up high. I might be stupid, but I am smart enough to not use the "other's" iron...I bought one at the place where we donate all our old clothes and furniture...I think the money helps a womans shelter or something...for like 2 dollars. cheapest tool I ever bought!!! (and beats getting kicked in the chin...every time)

Now, since YOU brought it up...I will be forced to agree with you, Indeed...my baby is the sweetest little thing in my world!!! every time I am on the computer when she is awake, she will crawl up the computer box...sit on the desk...and edge her bum over on the desk top until she is right in front of the monitor and I cant see the screen. She gets that little look on her face that you see in the picture there...and I am forced to leave the computer alone and spend time with my little priority.

I adore her.   :bigsmyl:
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2003, 02:03:00 AM »
this is for all you guys who are NOT going to MoJam! I grabbed an hour, taped three hacksaw blades together, and slashed in my nock   point.  

I apologize for the fuzzyness...I aint re-doing the   close-up!  

I then re-inforced the nock as it is going to be shot from a higher poundage bow, and tied the rear of the 3 fletchings in on the back   only.  

idea there is, when the sinew dries I will be able to pull the feathers tight and sinew them down really well from the front.

BTW, I had no intention of putting sinew in my mouth...but I tell ya what. Saliva activates the natural glue in the sinew...so I didn't have to mess with hide glue! I will size it real good with the real glue after I am done, but this way seems to work real well so far.

(NOW can ya hear the drums...?!!!)

HEY how are ya HEY how are ya...(simulated Indian chant)

just about gottum arra!
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Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2003, 10:42:00 AM »
Hey Calvin, those self nocks look good.  I have had bad luck using three saw blades and had to go to two.  Three makes them too wide for my string.  I guess I could get some larger serving and limit that problem, but I like nylon.

Instead of pouting this weekend (about MOJAM) get busy and finish those arrows!!!    :D    

I am tentatively planning a cane cutting venture this weekend.  I want to increase my supply and do a little scouting.  Apparently what I have found here is not river cane but switch cane as the link below describes it.  

See the link below:     :readit:     http://www.geocities.com/archeryrob/arrow_materials.htm  then choose River Cane from the menu.

I am going to start working on some arrows myself.  You have definitely inspired me.  I will post pics as I get going so everyone can see.  I did buy some spoons (6 for $1.00 at Wal-Mart) and am going to try to make trade points from them,     :help:    and I have an idea for bone nocks that I am working on.      :confused:    If it works, it should be easy.  I'll keep you posted.
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2003, 11:27:00 AM »
thanks for the link Marv! interesting stuff there...too bad I dont have time right this minute to check it out...I will though. I am interested in your spoon heads too...looks like a neat idea. the natives would use anything metal and bash trade points out so I dont see why this isnt a neat idea. (besides...I just like to SAY "spoonhead" LOL)

I did buy some 12" spikes last night to try and use as a trade point alternative (saw that in Jim Hamms book I think) 'course they are the dickens to pound out. My little piece of railroad aint cuttin it. I will have to run them to the shop and bash them on the anvil. should work well I would think.

I pick up a bunch more tendon from the butcher this afternoon...that little relasonship seems to going real well. (they charge me $0.25 a POUND) so I should have a good supply within a couple months I would think...as mentioned above, just by chewing on the stuff I can use it as a wrap, and it drys hard. (seems gross, but isnt) besides I think there is major medicine in buffalo sinew.
seperates real nice, and works well. I will ask about grabbing some buff bone whan I am there if I remember, that would make a neat head...ala the Murray Gaskin head on the picture I posted.

good luck Marv!

I will be watching for your thread. (and I am still going to pout about MoJam JFYI!!!!)
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Offline Linc

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2003, 05:43:00 AM »
Calvin, Banding is on it's way.  :wavey:
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Lincoln E. Farr

Offline Matt E

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2003, 03:43:00 PM »
I am new here but have been lurking for some time. I am another one that likes cane arrows.I make mine a bit different than most . I can't post pictures but sure enjoy looking at the ones that I am seeing here.I  like to use a fore shaft and nock of various hard woods. It is mostly a look thing. It is to time consuming to make them for hunting and not absolutely needed anyway.I find Switch Cane the best primitive shafting material that I have ever used.Thanks for allowing me to visit here.
 Take care all.
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Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2003, 01:31:00 AM »
after a little absence, with the Mojam sniffles, and busy with work, I grabbed a couple hours and got back at it. I am sure these things will go fast when I know what I am doing...but I am experimenting with absolutly everything at the same time, so bear with me.

Thanks for the banding Linc, it arrived, you will see a pic where I mess with it a little. kinda thin for hunting arrows maybe? I dunno, I will shoot em and try em and hang some on the wall regardless.

Matt E, nice to have you along for the ride. post some pictures of your stuff if you can, I got lots to learn, and pictures help!

anyways...after a few days of drying the rear sinew on the feathers, they are rock hard, and that was helpfull for stretching the feathers tight to do the front   sinew wrap.  

I had a heck of a time getting co-ordinated enough to get them all three tight and wrapped...finally cut a thin piece of clear tape, and secured them on the front half of the scraped quill...then sinew wrapped behind, tommorrow I will cut off the tape. cheating for sure, but I will have to figure out how to do it properly, or grow a few more hands or something.

then I glued on a   field point  with hot melt. as mentioned, not "period" but, after all, I'm gonna shoot these things and see what happens.

here is the arrow   overview...  I gotta figure out how short to trim the feathers now. and what style to make them.

and after that, I screwed around with the steel banding that Linc sent to me, and just got a feel for makin some   trade points.  You will eventually see quite a few differant trials and tribulations as I try differant materials, and just mess around.

seems to be taking awhile...as promised! I am not disappointed.

BTW, I grabbed another batch of buff sinew...and developed a new respect for squaws everywhere. I am pretty sure a sinew pounding Indian woman 100 years ago could have beaten Clint V in a arm wrestle...even lefts. but then again I might be wrong!    :wavey:  

(Clint, at least it wasn't a donut joke eh bud???!!!)
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Offline the Ferret

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2003, 06:59:00 AM »
Looking good Calvin. Trim the feathers with scissors. I start near the nock and cut toward the tip (cutting against the grain of the feather). Indians used all kinds of designs from a flat 5/8" straight across to a tapered with a tail (as in Murrays first arrow on the left in your picture) but you can develop your own. I simply cut on an angle about 3/4" at the back to 1/2" at the front (by eyeball)

as for afixing all three feathers at the same time,don't, simply do 1 at a time. doing 2 wraps with your sinew on your first feather before affixing the next feather 2 wraps and affixing your third feather, finish wrapping with maybe 5-10 wraps over all three feathers

with regards to your trade points. If you can cut them with those hand snips the material is not strong enough for big game hunting. Get you some bandsaw blades from a woodmizer band saw or the like.(lots of large bandsaws in Canada..you might contact a blade sharpening service for a source) Get a blade about 1 1/2" from the back to the cup in the teeth. You'll have to use a dremel with a cut off blade to cut them out, but they'll be tough enough to hunt with. I have sent them thru deer, hogs and turkeys. It's a good metal that will sharpen easily and hold an edge as well.

Please post pics of the completed arrows and your thoughts after shooting them.
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Offline the Ferret

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2003, 07:16:00 AM »
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Offline ky_longbow

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2003, 08:39:00 AM »
Calvin, doing nice job, buddy, dont worry about the "modern" field tip, like you said a man has to know how they fly,those are my exact plans also,get a good flying cane arra ,then go to the trade points.........Mickey do you think you could make trade points from a 7 1/4 circular saw blade? ive got a few of those lying around
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Offline Matt E

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Re: Gonna try River cane arra's!
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2003, 08:57:00 AM »
Calvin, I would like to send a picture of one of my arrows but I am a Neanderthal when it comes to computers.I do have a picture of one of my arrows stored in my computer but don't know how to send it other than mailing it to someone and letting them post it. If you would like e-mail me and I will send it to you. I see many fine arrows on this site. Mine are somewhat different as I adhered to way of my predecessors. We had little outside information. There were no computers to obtain information. Since finding this site.I feel like a child in a candy store. Thanks all .
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