Self Nock help needed

[Marvin M.]

OK you self nock experts help me out here (where are you Ferret).  I've worked long and hard on some shoot shafts to get them ready.  I've got a nice matched set in spine, length and weight.    :D  Many straightening sessions have bee used and I cut the first self nock the other night.  The problem is that it is not straight.  It is not off much, but enough to bother me.    :(  

Here is the process that I used.  Make sure that the end is cut off square.  Using C clamps (my tools are limited) I fasten it to the edge of a shelf to hold it steady.  Mark the center using a straight edge -- I eyeball this until it looks right -- no specialized tools.  Using two taped hack saw blades I make the cut down as deep as I think it needs to be.  Now use needle files and sandpaper to shape the nock.  I'm not sure where I went wrong with this, but one side of the nock is slightly thicker than the other.  If I file down that side, It will probably make the nock too wide to hold the string.  I can probably cut it off and start over and be OK, but I don't have any confidence that I won't do the same thing again.    

I know that you can buy guides to make this easier, but I don't have one and don't want to wait for one.  Are there any tricks that would make this process easier?

I thought about drilling a hole in my miter box and sticking it through there and using that as a guide.  How do you guys do it without a jig?

All suggestions appreciated.

[George Tsoukalas]

See Shoot Shafts and Selfnocks on my site.
 http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/archer.html

[George Tsoukalas]

Note that I mount mine vertically in a wood vice. Also note that I make a pilot cut with a hacksaw, go to a 3 taped together blades, widen the top witj a 1/8" round file to get teh flared look and use medium sacdpaper to blend everything together.
jawge

[lcoast]

I sure don't get mine even all the time either but they seem to shoot okay. I was originally doing a pilot cut with a dozuki and then going to 3 hacksaw blades taped together but have found I can do as good with 3 hacksaw blades and no pilot cut.

I have broken the ears off on a couple by hitting them with the next arrow and repaired them. The repair has made the nock really wide because my repair was less than perfect but they shoot well.

Best thing for keeping them even for me is to keep my head righ over the cutting line so I see both sides of the blades at the same time and go slow. I do mine like Jawge with the shaft vertical.

=keith=

[Marvin M.]

Thanks Jawge.  I already referenced your site.  I visit there frequently.  Good stuff.

lcoast, I am doing them vertical.  I've got a block with a slot in it that I clamp to the side of a set of shelves with C clamps.  That is my "vice".  Guess I did it the way you guys would.

On the three hack saw blades, that comes out too wide for my strings by the time I smooth it.  I'm using a 14 strand B-50 sting with nylon serving.  Maybe I need bigger serving, but two blades work well for me.  I'm still new at this, but the few that I have already done have worked well.  I've got maybe a half dozen under my belt now.  Still learning.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Sal]

First thing you should do is get a tile cutting saw and use that instead, $1.80 at home depot.  It'll give you more control and a cleaner cut.  Next get a piece of scrap shaft or dowel and start cutting and shaping a few for practice.  You'll get the hang of it by the third one, then you do your shafts.  If they're not exactly even, don't sweat it, they'll shoot well anyway.  If you do it freehand the only trick is a practiced hand.

[bjk]

I use a tile cutting blade.  It really makes it easy to cut a self nock straight and quick.  Not sure if they come in different sizes though.

I'm really new at this, passing along info from others much more experienced than me...the rounded tile blade does seem to work pretty well.

Brian

[Marvin M.]

OK, sounds like I need to invest in a tile cutting blade.  I'll try to pick one up.  

Thanks for the tips.

[Grey Taylor]

When using the aforementioned tile cutting blade I've had the best experience by cutting a short way and then turning the shaft 180 degrees and cutting a bit more.  I alternate cuts from both sides of the shaft and it keeps my cuts straighter than if I did the whole cut from just one side.

For the most part I use a Dremel table saw with a clamp to hold the shaft vertical, but my primitive arrows get the tile blade by hand.

[four_swords_fretted]

I just made my first self-nocked arrows with Guy's help.  I didn't think to thread wrap under the nocks before I coated them with gasket lacquer so I hope they hold up to shooting.  I'll keep you posted on breakage and durability.

[four_swords_fretted]

The new arrows:
 

[bodkin]

self nock tool  

b.

[Marvin M.]

OK guys, (thanks for the input) the consensus seems to be that the arrow needs to be (1)vertical and stationary and (2)use a tile blade to cut.  

I will confirm that my "vice" is stable to make sure that the shaft doesn't move.  Might add a third C clamp and maybe line the edges of my shelf and my grooved block with leather for a better grip.    

I will also buy a tile blade for my hacksaw and use it to cut the nocks before shaping with my needle files.  :D  

Consensus also seems to be that a little out of line will not affect the accuracy.  Maybe I am being too picky on this, but occaisionally the detail-oriented-anal-retentive-it-has-to-be-right accountant   :rolleyes:  comes out in me.  I will go ahead and finish this one and see what happens.  If it doesn't work like I want, I will just use it as a display arrow and chalk it up to experience.

[Marvin M.]

Hey Bodkin,

That looks interesting.  How do you use it?  Did you buy or make?  Fill me in.

[bjk]

Grey Taylor -- I started doing the same thing...with the tile blade in my hands, it cut almost perfect, but would wander as I got toward the last third...rotating 180 makes it nice and straight...to my eye, at least ;-)    :eek:    

Bodkin -- I would also like to hear/see a bit more about the tool you posted...thanks

FSF -- good looking arrows

I'll try for some pics tonight, get some input from the more experienced...

[the Ferret]

Just so y'all don't think I was ignoring Marvin's plea to me for help, I sent him a private email yesterday.

[Mike Byrge]

Guys,
I've used something similar to what bodkin posted...at least I think it is.

I take a spiral-cut bit and mount it in my drill-press.  I've got a 1x4 with a V groove and center the bit in the groove and push the shaft into the bit.

I have to wide the nock some with a file but it works well.

If I can find it I'll post some pictures of the process tonight.

[hickstick]

four swords...you could still wrap them no problem...I always wrap after I finish anyway....all you need is to wrap with what-have-you (thread artifical sinew, etc) and then put a coating of duco over it.  I wouldn't risk shooting a non-wrapped/non reinforced selfnock out of any of my bows.  if it breaks on release its just like a dry fire....


to the original question...I too use a tile cutting blade...though not in the saw frame, and I usually free hand it...no clamp or vise...just hold the shaft horizontal on a table top etc, and eyeball the cut, holding the tile cutter in my hand...hit it with some sandpaper and thats it...

[Marvin M.]

I guess that I should confirm also that Mickey did not ignore my post.  He did reply and has been very helpful, as usual.

Looks like I am trying to overdo it with making sure that they are exactly right.  I guess you learn as you go.  I will try to get these things finished and post pictures for everyone to see.

I am making arrows for my spoonheads and am planning to do two viburnium shafts and four switch cane shafts as a start.  Won't be able to work on them tonight since there is a Neighborhood Watch meeting that I have to go to, but maybe tomorrow or Thursday.

Mike,

That sounds interesting.  I had no idea you could cut a nock that way, but it makes sense.  My tools are limited, so I will stick to the manual method for now, but if a fellow made a lot of these, that method would make it easier.

[bodkin]

Hi !

This tool was made by my father.It`s just a simpel drilling jig.The big hole is for the shaft 8,8mm(11/32) and the little is 3mm in diam.- same diam. as my strings.The jig will make the job mutch easier and faster .After drilling i use a sharp knife to shape the nock-the tool can be used for this too .I push the shaft trough just enough so I can see the hole-now the nock can be cut without splintering the shaft.Sorry for the fuzzy pictures.

  the tool

b.