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Author Topic: How to tiller a banana bow  (Read 13576 times)

Offline lcoast

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2004, 09:49:00 AM »
Cooter this has been quite the ride.

I would suggest not raising any wood to apply glue to. Glue works best on a solid smooth clean surface. Wood workers make their surfaces like glass. The story in TBB about applying hide glue to glass and it lifting pieces of glass when it dries is real. Raised wood is weak wood.

=keith=
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Offline Marc

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2004, 10:08:00 AM »
Good point Keith. I don't think it applies in this case though because any water will raise the grain on wood and hide glue is full of water  :) .
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Marc

Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2004, 10:43:00 AM »
Keith, Marc,

I guess thats one thing I don't get with this bow. Before sinewing I've scrubbed the back with a strong lye solution that I made at work 3 times of which water was used between each washing then 3 washings using acetone. I like abraiding the two surfaces when I do a glue up. IMO, that should increase the actual surface area for the glue to bond to which should actually give a stronger glue joint than two smooth as glass surfaces being glued together.

I just might use the hot gun to slightly heat the wood and sinew once I've got the bow wrapped and tied in place. Don't worry I wont heat it like I would for bending. just enought to get both surfaces warm to the touch.

Thanks again for the help,
Cooter
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Offline DCM

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2004, 04:12:00 PM »
No heat gun.

I had a sinew backing peel off while it was curing.  Prep the bow again, with the hacksaw treatment.  I'm not sure the lye wash is as important if you get down to clean wood and score it up good.  Steam the bow good before you start to get it nice and warm.  Make sure you get any extra glue off the sinew.  Bath it in hot water until it gets just soft enough to be limber.  Size the bow well with good glue (Knox works for me) the proper temperature (not more than 120).  I like to mix if fairly thick, like hotcake syrup.  Size the sinew well and put them back together.  Wrap tightly with an ACE bandage and give it a few days to set.  If you'll lay off that maximum reflex gig you'll be fine.  If you go for 10" of reflex you are asking a lot of the material and design.

Did a lot of sinew stay with the bow or was it a clean separation?

Bummer dude.  Persevere.
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Offline the Ferret

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2004, 05:09:00 PM »
Keith, I don't know that I agree with gluing smooth surfaces together. Hydraulic lock comes to mind as does hydroplaning, as does trying to get 2 surfaces with smooth on glue to stay lined up properly   :D  . I can also cite plenty of instances where guys didn't rough up a glued up handle and it popped where by they roughed them up and the handles held. I believe that is the reason they invented toothing planes in the first place.
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Offline Flinttim

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2004, 05:53:00 PM »
Yep , toothing planes do two things, increase surface area being glued and prevent glue starvation. Starvation is not a deal here but increased surface is. Doubtful you could use a toothing plane here w/o screwing up the bow back so the hacksaw blade fills in.

Thick glue and lots of it, and hide glue.We're talking about bonding wood to protein here. I can't say epoxy wouldn't do that but I know hide glue will.If it's good enough to lam wood to horn (as in composite bows) it's more than adequate for this application.

And as David said , keep the heat gun away from it. Heat is the enemy of sinew.
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Offline Marc

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2004, 06:20:00 PM »
David and Tim. I've used a heat gun on a sinew backed bow before, more than once in fact. As long as the sinew doesn't get hot to the touch it's not affected, this of course is on cured sinew.

Cooter. You say that you roughed up the back before sinewing. That could be the problem. You should rough up the back then degrease. Doing it the other way just exposes oily wood.
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Marc

Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2004, 07:11:00 PM »
Only got a couple minutes, No Abraid the back then degrease with lye/water followed by some acetone then once dry look at the abraiding and if I think it needs more repeat the process until I like the feal of the back. I don't like too smooth of mating surfaces when I do a glue up.
Then wrap in cotton gauze. With this bow I think I'l wrap it from handle to one tip then handle to second tip. I've been working on it off and on throughout the with some pic's that I'll post later tonight or in the morning.

Cooter
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Offline Timo

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2004, 07:21:00 PM »
I agree with Marc on the "rough up First,then degrease"!I see no need for acetone after the lye bath?Lye will get it clean,plenty of hot water rinse of course!

The toothing plane will work, just take the plane out of the  body, and use it as a scraper.Hacksaw blade will also suffice.
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Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2004, 07:37:00 AM »
As promised some pic's. All I've got to say is and if you want to quote me feel free.
Things just keep getting better and better   :bigsmyl:  
Cooter
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Offline Flinttim

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2004, 08:06:00 AM »
You are on the right path Cooter. Something I do and you might want to do, is to wrap some sinew around the bow in the middle of and thru the handle area. Gives that little bit of insurance from lifting and separating in the middle (sounds like a bra commercial). That severe reflex scares me though, but I guess you can't do much about it. Rusty is the master of the severe sinew reflex and hopefully he'll be back here by the time the sinew dries.
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Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #91 on: February 15, 2004, 10:44:00 AM »
Flinttim,

Ya, I was hopping the 'Ol Coot an his side kick(or should that be the other way around) sorry,  brain fart. Anyway wish they would have chimed in here, shaking their heads in dis beleif, and offered up a few words of wisdom to this Square headed yankee from Minnesota  :bigsmyl:  Such as maybe, burn her.

I got one small gap that needs filling with hide glue and re wrapping. By the time I got through with her last night my fingers were numb. My hands are still soar this morning. If I was smart I think I'd have tried to do one limb at a time.

Talk to you later,
Cooter
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Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #92 on: February 15, 2004, 11:08:00 PM »
I'm bound and determined to make myself a sinew backed hunk of osage. Just got the first course of Moose Sinew on. This one might have a tiller that's slightly more acheivable compaired to that last one I attempted. And you haven't seen the last of that bow either  :bigsmyl:  
 
 

I think I'm in love with Moose Sinew. This might sound strange, weard, or right out of the
Twilight Zone, but everything from pounding, pulling, soaking, and applying this sinew gave me a sense of good carma, if you know what I mean it.

Take care all,
Cooter
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Offline the Ferret

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2004, 07:58:00 AM »
Cooter that one looks like it may actually make a bow. Would look awesome with some brush nocks.

What are all the little lines on the side of the bow, is that wrapped?
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Offline John Scifres

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #94 on: February 16, 2004, 09:08:00 AM »
Cooter,

Moose sinew is awesome. I like it so much more than deer.  It is actually fun to do.  I had the kids stripping sinew yesterday.  My 8 year old was doing QA/QC on my work making sure the strands were thin enough.  I sinewed a bow with it last night.  Took about 1.5 hours and just a bit more than 1 tendon.  It already looks great this morning.  I'm sure it will be really pretty just because it's so long and less chopped up on the back.

John
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Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2004, 12:33:00 PM »
Mickey,

Yup, the bow's wrapped. Say, I thought you said you had some moose sinew in some thread a while back. That's why I'm using it. If you've never tried it, give it a go, awsome stuff. Brush nock's? you wouldn't by chance have a picture?

John,

I wanted to built up midlimb(thanks Rusty for the advice) with some short pieces. I soak what I swear were bundles maybe 6 inches in length dry. However, most went on wet maybe 12-16 inches. I know the one was close to 20+ because I centered it on the handle and layed it nearly midlimb to midlimb. Now I'll keep my fingers crossed that I don't end up with another bananas. Is it me, or does this moose sinew cure clear?

Cooter
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Offline Marc

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #96 on: February 16, 2004, 01:42:00 PM »
One Moose backstrap from an adult Moose is big enough to do a whole bow, it's long enough to do one whole limb of an average length bow from handle to tip. I find that Moose tendons are tougher to seperate and you really have to pound the H out of them, they dry a golden color for me.
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Marc

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2004, 04:11:00 PM »
Cooter, I admire your persistence.  :)
Jawge
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Offline cooter

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2004, 06:33:00 PM »
Jawge,

I'm going with shear statistics and probability here. Maybe throw in a little stuborness and a touch of pigheadedness into the equation as well. Anyway, you could go as far as saying it's become an absession. I will make a sinew backed osage arra flinger in my lifetime and thats all there is to it.  "[tunglaff]"  

Cooter
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Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: How to tiller a banana bow
« Reply #99 on: February 16, 2004, 07:19:00 PM »
Get you on a rope and pulley tho, Cooter, so you don't spend too much bowyerin' time in the ER. been readin' your trials and tribulations.  :)
Jawge
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