Designing the ultimate wooden bow......

[Jason Jelinek]

Since we are talking selfbow here we go:
(1) material: osage
(2) 72" ntn
(3) handle design: semi bend
(4) handle length: 4"
(5) fade length: 2"
(6) limb design: convex width taper
(7) limb width at fade/tip: 1 & 1/8" to 3/8" wide tips
(8) Limb Length: slightly asymetrical
(9) Belly type: slightly rounded
(10) Backing: none
(11) rest type: none
(12) overlays: antler nocks or overlays
(13) profile: straight
(14) finish: tru oil
(15) handle covering: leather
(16) string type: flemish FF

Basically an ELB with a very slightly raised handle (maybe 1/2" thicker).  I'm thinking 60# @ 30" draw.

Jason

[Eric Krewson]

Lennie, I just try to make my all the angles on my bows flow into each other gracefully. This is the reason I use a longer fade out, because it looks better. I have started using a longer overlays lately for the same reason, more graceful.

[Hackbow]

I'm not very experienced, partly due to Scifres making me the NEARLY ultimate selfbow. I'm not very motivated to make myself a bow because I love this one so much. But if I were to build the one of which you speak, this is what it would be:

(1) material - osage
(2) 61" NTN (I have a 28-1/4+" draw)
(3) handle design: rigid
(4) handle length: 3.5"
(5) fade length: 1.25"
(6) limb design: full width to 9" past fades - approx 1/3 of working limb
(7) limb width at fade: 1.5"
(8) Limb length: top limb is 1" longer than bottom
(9)Belly type: rounded flat belly
(10) backing: air
(11)rest type: partial cut-in shelf and glued leather
(12)overlays: no
(13)profile: straight, turned tips
(14)finish: Tru-Oil
(15)handle covering: leather wrapped
(16) string type: B-50 flemish

This is just a little different than what I'm using now. I would go up in wt. from 55 to 63-65#. Another notable design feature would be having the smallest nocks possible to hold the string on.

[Marc]

1. Elm
2. 62" N to N
3. Rigid
4. 4"
5. 1 1/2"
6. 5 degree taper to mid limb then straight taper to tips
7. 1 3/4"
8. Equal length
9. Flat
10. None
11. Leather
12. Horn or tropical hardwoods
13. Deflex handle, reflexed limbs and recurved
14. Tung oil, shellac and paste wax.
15. Leather
16. Endless FF

Draw weight. 55# ~ 60# @ 28"

[the Ferret]

This is great stuff guys...some patterns emerging and something that I'm finding interesting is the number of bowyers saying they carry full width for 1/3 of the working limb. Very interesting.

[Dano]

OK buddy, what's your ultimate design?  

[the Ferret]

Mine Dano?....
osage
62" ntn
semi bendy handled
4" handle
no real fades, handle blends into limb
limb width 1 1/8" carried to just past mid limb tapering to 1/2" tips
equal length limbs
mostly flat but slightly rounded belly
1 layer sinew backed
elkhide floppy rest
no overlays
flat profile with slight flip at tips
true oil and automotive paste wax
elkhide handle wrap
dacron B50 Flemish

[Dano]

I could live with that design Mickey, what's your draw length?

[AZStickman]

(1) material (osage)
(2) ntn length 64"
(3) handle design (rigid, Bulbous)
(4) handle length 4"
(5) fade length 1 1/2" flowing into limbs
(6) limb design (1 1/8" to 1 3/8" wide at fades tapering in 1/8" at mid limb, and a straight taper from there to 1/4" nocks)
(7) limb width at fade ( See #6        )
(8) Limb length (even length )
(9)Belly type ( slightly rounded)
(10) backing (None or  sinew topped with rawhide or snakeskin)
(11)rest type (none)
(12)overlays (yes, Horn )
(13)profile ( static curve )
(14)finish (tung oil,or Massey)
(15)handle covering (I haven't done one yet but a wrap JD style is the classiest handle covering going )
(16) string type and material (flemish, dacron, )
(17) 60-70#

[tom sawyer]

1/3 the working limb is interesting, no doubt.

I thought about a sinewed bow Mickey.  That would make it indestructible.  But also prone to change with humidity.

[George Tsoukalas]

(1) material (osage, or black locust)
(2) ntn length (BL=66 ntn; osage=65 ntn)
(3) handle design (rigid)
(4) handle length (7.5 in)
(5) fade length(bottom=1 in; tope =2.5 in or so)
(6) limb design (full width to  past mid )
(7) limb width at fade (osage-1.5; BL= 1.75)
(8) Limb length (even length)
(9)Belly type (flat-slightly rounded)
(10) backing (none)
(11)rest type (glued leather)
(12)overlays (no)
(13)profile (straight- reflex tips)
(14)finish ( tru oil,)
(15)handle covering (leather)
(16) string type and material (flemish, dacron)
Jawge

[DCM]

Well I been reading along here and making in my mind each bow you've decribed.  The sad fact is my life's ambition is to make each one, and a whole lot more I haven't heard mentioned.  I can't pick just one.  How does one pick a favorite from among his children?

[Timo]

Mickey that's the same thing that kept hitting me! I usually go full for 4" past a 2" fade.Seems to give me more working limb. Maybe I need to change a few things?

Good thread.

[Hackbow]

That's funny David. After describing my "ultimate", I realized that none of the bows I have in the works is the one I described. But I have some fun ones going!

With regard to the 1/3 vs 1/2 limb width tapering, I just follow Scifres as he's been my teacher in most of this (a fact I'm sure he'd rather keep quiet). The bow he made for me is the sweetest shooter I've ever experienced and I really like the look of a thinner width and thicker profile. Sort of a cross between flatbow and ELB. I haven't done enough experimenting to know what is good, better or best. I just know what I like from what I've shot or seen of others' work.

[chri5917]

Well, I'll admit that I could never make it, but after reading this tread closely, I think my ideal all wooden bow would have to be...

ONE OF ERIC'S!

Wow, them's purty!

Be it that I've never actually shot a self bow (except the famous green tree branch strung with kite string) I guess I'm probably not what some would call "knowledgeable"    , but wow, those things are awesome. My wife's going to wake up tonight to me mumbling, "I didn't know osage could be so good looking," in my sleep.  Hmmmm... Hope she realizes Osage isn't a girl...
Anywho, not to say that the rest of you don't make drop dead gorgeous bows, but those pictures of Erics really took me back.
Great work!

[horseapple]

1-(Osage selfbow)
2-(63"ntn 27.5" draw)
3-(stiff handle)
4-(4"handle)
5-(1.75" flares)
6-(even length limbs)
7-(1-3/8" with straight taper to .5" tips)
8-(slight radiused belly)
9-(rest, glued on tapered leather)
10-(overlays, water buffalo)
11-(slight reflex but don't mind 1" set)
12-(finish, catalysed varnish)
13-(handle, skived leather wrap)
14-(string, 14 strand FF with 8 strands of B-50 in loops

You guys have got me pumped to go out and lay one up:)

Joe Don

[John Scifres]

I think the 1/3 of working limb is a nice balance between having enough wood where it matters most to reduce set and not so much that you carry the mass out towards the tips where it tends to slow things down.  I really feel carrying full width halfway out is overbuilding by some with osage.  I think anything less than good hickory needs it though.  But those are less dense woods so the mass equation isn't the same.

All that being said, my go to bow is my sinew backed static.  I love it.  My second favorite is my elk bow made like I described above.  Except it's 65# and I can't shoot that much weight unless I work myself up to it over several months.  Third favorite is a dead on Torges design straight from his book and about 55#.  One of my alltime favorites that I have made was a skinny, 59" working handled working recurve out of osage.  I traded it away.  I'm itching to make myself one some time.  I even have the piece of wood picked out for it.  I may put sinew on it.  The first one didn't have it.

[tom sawyer]

Joe Don why catalyzed varnish?  I was just reading about varnishes in my latest Jamestown catalog, sounded interesting.  Kind of a blend of oil and resin and some black magic thrown in.

I thought you were reading out of HOB till you got to them even limbs.  But I won't go there.

[tom sawyer]

Mims pick a durned design.  It doesn't have to be Miss Right, just Miss Right Now.  Or go scientific like me and do eeny meeny etc.

[GeneJockey]

It would be fun to do a statistical analysis of the answers.  I guess we already know the most popular bow wood!

(1) material: Osage - like the Oklahoma stuff I got from Mike Hames.
(2) ntn length: 65-66" (for 29" draw)
(3) handle design: rigid
(4) handle length: 4"
(5) fade length: 2"
(6) limb design: full to mid
(7) limb width at fade: 1 1/2 or so.
(8) Limb length: Even - Mims is no help tillering asymmetricals!    
(9)Belly type: slightly rounded
(10) backing: none
(11)rest type: glued leather
(12)overlays: none
(13)profile: straight
(14)finish: Tru-oil
(15)handle covering: leather
(16) string type and material: Flemish DF97