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Author Topic: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .  (Read 11907 times)

Offline mcgroundstalker

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2006, 07:35:00 PM »
Dan...I've read through the four pages of posts that seem to be wavering in direction...Your topic starter and second statement have brought me to a different opinion about your self imposed dilema...(Remember This Is Only My Opinion) Formed by the too many books I read...

Why are you questioning the human condition? You are not a machine. These feelings of lost confidence and fustration can be combated by "having fun" shooting a bow and using "visualization" while shooting for practice and hunting alike.

It seems to me you are putting too much pressure on yourself...Don't have to quote your words...I read them twice. Try to look at the positive side of all that brought you to this point...

I know you have what it takes! Stick with it a little longer. Might just be something simple like stump shooting that will get you out of this state of mind... :) ...

Good Luck...>>-----> mike <-----<<  :thumbsup:
"Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies"

Offline Arwin

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2006, 08:34:00 PM »
I tried to go back to a compound 2 years ago and what a frustrating experience that was. I had thought going to the high tech stuff would help me bag a deer better. I spent more time and money trying to tune that wretched thing than I did hunting. Save your sanity and stick with what you've got.
 Like stated above, get out and do some stump shooting or like I do, go out to public land and shoot discarded pop cans and garbage. The best shooting is when your having fun and not pressuring yourself do shoot perfectly. When next season rolls around you'll be relaxed and the shot will come naturaly.
 I know how it is to have a bad season with missing shots. It seems when the next animal comes in, all you can do is think about the last shot you missed and panic sets in. Get a 3-D target and practice on it heavily. The next time you get a shot at a deer, visualize it as a 3-D target. Stick with it brother!
Just one more step please!

Some dude with a stick and string chasing things.

Offline bowfiend

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2006, 08:51:00 PM »
I have a friend who's had a similar mindset of late. For him, the mental aspect of making a good shot on a live animal has been so crippling that he passed on a nice bull at 12 yards this year - he just didn't feel comfortable taking the shot. I imagine that there's so much intensity and animosity surrounding a shot that it isn't really fun for him. My only suggestion is what others have already said: The experience should be joyful! I, of course, would love to see you overcome your adversity, but it's more important that you're enjoying your time in the woods - with trad gear or otherwise.
Is it September yet?!

Offline Roger Moerke

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2006, 09:36:00 PM »
Some one mentioned they picked up the compound after shooting trad and it did not feel right. I found that out long time ago when I first got started.I missed a deer twice the same nite that I could have gotten easily with a compound. First off I had to think about it if I had shot at the deer with my compound I doubt  I would have gotten a second shot and after picking up the compound it truly felt foreign in my hand. And I decided right there I would not give up, don't have a compound in the house  anymore have not for lots of years. Any way ramble, ramble its no sin either way. Cheers!

Offline John Nail

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2006, 07:40:00 AM »
OK, look.  Nothing I'm going to say is aimed at you.
If a person NEEDS to kill something on a regular basis......if 155+ means something to you......then  you should shoot what works for you.
Hunters go through a natural progression:
1. New hunter just wants to kill something to prove he can.
2. Next step is the "Limit", again, to prove he can.
3. Then comes the "Trophy", mine's bigger'n yours, stage.
4. Then he starts to challenge himself with personal limitations such as hunting from the ground or using a selfbow, ect. This hunter waits for the perfect shot. He wounds few animals, because he won't shoot unless it's a slam-dunk.
5. If we're lucky, we reach the final stage, when we have nothing left to prove and just Revel in being out there. Joyful for the chance.

Be honest, and find yourself someplace in the progression. Shoot what you want, and don't sweat the small stuff!! Life is too short to fret over equipment choices.
Is it too late to be what I could have been?

Offline outdoor_matt

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2006, 10:11:00 AM »
I am still trying to bag my first deer, so I'm using a crossbow for the time being.  It has recurve limbs:) Once I get more confident with my recurve then I will switch.
Saved by Grace

Offline Allan Hundeby

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2006, 12:08:00 PM »
Old Ways, you cite the same reasons that led ME away from my compound.

K.I.S.S.

For me it boils down to this question:  At which range do you want to kill an animal?  300yds?  150yds?  80yds?  40yds?  20yds?  7yds?  Most of the satisfaction I derive from bowhunting comes from interacting with wildlife and seeing how close I can get game before shooting.  I lose out on this with longer range weapons.

I agree with dougers and Molson:  I don't think I'd be any more accurate with a more advanced weapon... I would still face the choice to take the marginal shots within each weapon class.  As one steps up the "technological weapon scale", one certainly increases the maximum effective range of the weapon, but the hunter is often far less capable than the weapon he/she is using.  I berated myself for making marginal hits with my bow this year, but then again... my brother made no BETTER shot with his rifle!  What's the difference?  Only range.  All the deer went down; he just had to walk further to retrieve his.   ;)
Bow:
62" Bob Lee TD Hunter Recurve: 51# @ 28", Braceheight: 7 3/4"

Bowstring:
Chad Weaver 58.5'' 10-strand DF97 (padded loops); 0.19 HALO serving; rubber silencers & brush buttons

Offline Steven Mullins

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2006, 02:23:00 PM »
I'm glad to see this post.  I can relate to you Dan, as this year, I've had probably the worst year bowhunting deer so far. My issue is target panic, by my own admission!  I can't seem to break it, whatever I try.  I'm fairly accurate, however I stuck two bucks this year (one at 10 yards) and lost them both.  I'm very seriously thinking about going back to a compound this coming year, and shooting it instinctively (like the Fitzgeralds).  My heart is traditional and has been for about 18 years, but I just feel I owe it to the game, and to myself to be as accurate as I can.  I feel your pain!
"Every boy should have two things, a dog and a bow."

Offline mcgroundstalker

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2006, 03:49:00 PM »
HOLD THE PHONE!!! I don't like to see so many guys wanting to... :banghead: ...quit the trad bow cause of some bad shooting...I lost a nice buck with a poor hit myself...On the ground, stalking at eight yards with a neck hit...No Blood Trail...(Killed 4 weeks later during rifle season)...

Shouldn't we ask ourselves...HOW and WHY this happens and not beat ourselves up? Maybe it's just me...I would love to see US do that.

>>-----> mike <-----<<

PS...Some say I over think things...Just like to understand how my mind and body works... :) ...
"Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies"

Offline TimDougan

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2006, 03:57:00 PM »
Dan ben there done that. Had a bad fall and injured my wrists 4years ago.I panicked and sold my recurve thought my trad bow days were done. I took a nice 8 point with a low poundage compound that same year. When i told my brother i had a nice buck down he said you don't seem very excited. i thought about it for a minute and said your wright somethlngs wrong i should be thrilled. I was happy i got my deer but something was missing. That something for me was doing it the trad way. Thanks to the good lord my wrists have healed and i now enjoy traditional bows agian.There is no shame in hunting how ever you choose you are the same man no matter what you carry in the field. Best of luck TD.

Offline DeerSpotter

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2006, 05:36:00 PM »
Most of the time, all of us have some kind of trouble, something that bothers us.  Sometimes it trouble that is seen and sometimes it's not.  Sometimes, it takes a long time for us to realize what are real troubles are.  I know that I am a person that is all or nothing.  That's my personality.  I'm the type of person that could do traditional archery for living, if I just find the right niche with it.  But the trouble is once something enters into my life that I'm doing it just to make money and exist, it's over.

I flat out don't like it anymore.  I have only one more day to hunt for my deer.  We haven't had but 1 in. of snow ever since winter began, and that's embarrassing when you are from Minnesota.  Even up North they're having to snowmobile on the lakes because they snow has melted away.

I have had coyotes enter into an area where I've been hunting (500 acres), its public land so there's about eight other hunters that do archery there, I'm the only traditional bow hunter.  In this public land they is no rifles allowed, they can hunt small game with a (fine shot) only.  So I've gotten on personal basis with all the stupid hunting dogs that have walked across my blind, there is one dog that has a bell on it, his name is Mike,
I dislike that dog, but that dog knows no better than what his master tells him.

We haven't seen deer in that 500 acres for 6 weeks now, we just saw five does Friday 12/29, they were coming across the pasture, and the lead doe stopped, and looked intently across the field, and turned back.  There was only two of us hunting the 500 acres that day, we had a little rain, and it weeds out some of the other hunters.  No other vehicles just mine and another fellows.  We stayed in our stands until it was totally dark.  We walked out together, when we were about halfway out we heard the coyote call.  It's upsetting, but not enough to quit traditional.

That 500 acres has been like a huge open space that God has given me, I see His handiwork, and all the things He has created.  So for me, traditional bow hunting, has been a peaceful thing.  I sat in my blind waiting for deer to appear, putting it on the right trails, and doing all the right things.  And a day has gone by, that I haven't seen flock of geese fly overhead, the Cardinal land 3 ft. from me, but nuthatcher that would almost take food out of your hand.  The details in the feathers, the timing that they come around you could almost set your watch by.  And did I mention the sunsets, that sometimes look like stained-glass windows, because of all the color that the ice crystals change the light of the sun into.

Traditional bow hunting is more of an inward thing, than anything to do with the outward.  Yes we can dress up like the old people that used to hunt by bow only one time.  But when you put that nock to the string, and you draw the string back, and you release it, it tells more about the inside than it does the outside.  The confidence, the understanding, the commitment, the dedication that you have to making everything work right for that one shot, tells more about you than anything else, that anyone else can see.  Does it make a difference rather that bow is traditional or a compound.  Really I don't think so, we are such a image minded society, that we are designated by what we have in front of us more so than what we've got within us, that it is disappointing.

I appreciate each and everyone of you on these threads, some of you are encourage others, some of you just set by and listen to others, some of your are problem solvers, some of you show your love and concern for others outwardly, by your dedication to your craft.  I even seen some of you offer your own bow to someone that's lost there's so they could use it for the rest of the season.  So I don't think this site is about traditional or a compound.  I may not have a deer in the freezer that year, but I have much more than that, because of all of the openness, caring concern, that I see on this site.

Oh I did mentioned their some of you that are hardheaded !  "I wouldn't go back to compound if that's the last thing I had to do" but did you notice those that mentioned it that way, never, never, said that anyone was any less if they shot with a compound.

So enjoy your last day, as a legal hunter.  And then comes set around a campfire that this site has created, and I'm sure there is more than just the trouble of compound or traditional, missing are hitting, they'll be someone here and they will share your troubles, they will also become a part of your grief or should I say lost of confidence in yourself.  There surely someone here that will raise your spirits so that you can enjoy your craft again.  I have had many years without deer, but I do have to say this is been my saddest year, because I'm not yet named among those that shot it with a stick, the string, and arrow.  Although I did 30 years ago, and this is my first year of`traditional since then, it's been my best year by far,

Because of all of you

Thank you

Carl
--------------------------
 Heb.13:5-6

Offline KSdan

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2006, 05:55:00 PM »
Thanks everyone- I do think there are a few misconceptions but I sure have received pms of guys wanting to share the real story.  

One thing throughout this post is some of you suggest I need to limit my range- that is not the problem.  Frankly, anyone on here saying they are missing deer are generally a FOOT off.  I missed a monster this year at 12 yards- over his  back. I take responsibility; it is not the equipment but my ability to shoot it under pressure. I did not pick a spot- which I rarely do on live targets.  Been at this for 20 years, shot many animals including 150-170" whitetails, from 6-26 yards.  Yet I can honestly say that every shot has been what I call a "zone" shot.  I was shooting for the chest and not a spot.  During the past ten years I have missed 4 bucks over 150"- three were under 15 yards- a miss means I am a FOOT off.  Yet, I can hit a golf ball at 18 yards 7/10 times.  It is a mental breakdown for which I am responsible- HOWEVER, after 20 years if I have yet to break the problem perhaps it is time to reconsider.

Believe me- I  would like to take every animal I hunt with a tradd bow- but fairness to the animals, limited time, and desire to compete with a mature buck has got me thinking seriously about my own limitations.  In this case it may be mental limitations!  

Do I love to shoot, the arc of the arrow, trad life- you better believe it!  Can't imagine not hunting with it.  But then again, a 160" deer or even a doe at 16 yards deserves my best accuracy. Will a compound solve all the problems-"NO"  But would a compound help? I am thinking about it. (Many pms, including "celebrity" guys have had similar thoughts)

Again, re-read my original post.  This is not about one bow over another, my bigger question was "have any of you been here?"  "What did you do?"  "Were you REALLY able to over come it?"

Thanks again for a great discussion
Have a blessed New Year
Dan
If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat? ~anon

Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

Offline Molson

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2006, 07:50:00 PM »
Dan-

The compound itself will not help you overcome your problem.  Many compound shooters miss shots on animals regularly for the same reasons you are missing shots.  You make a mistake and dwell on it to the point the anxiety overcomes you and you continue to make mistakes.  I have a friend who has not made a shot on an animal in six years.  He hunts with a compound and shotgun.  This year he missed a deer at 15 yards with his bow and at 8 yards with a shotgun.  He gets so nervous when an animal approaches that things go wrong.  It's almost as if he "wills" something to go wrong.

What will help you is the BELIEF that switching to the compound is the answer.  You have this belief because you have given yourself that option.  I have been there, done that, and I understand it.  The bottom line is whether you really want to keep shooting trad or not.

If you really want to keep shooting trad then you can make some adjustments to your shooting.  You first have to determine why you are missing and decide how to fix it.  As an example, I had, and sometimes still have, a problem dropping my bow arm. If I screw up a shot it's going low.  It took me awhile to realize exactly why I would shoot low.  Once I figured out why, I adjusted my shooting style to make that mistake less likely to occur.  When it does occur, I know immediately why I missed.  This recognition and knowing how to correct it, does wonders for your confidence.  Don't dwell on missed shots. A missed shot is nothing more than an opportunity to identify a way to improve your shooting. It took me a long time to actually understand this.

It really is that simple to fix. There's a big difference between, "I missed because I dropped my bow arm" and "I missed again, I just can't do it."  Good luck in whatever you decide.
"The old ways will work in the future, but the new ways have never worked in the past."

Offline KSdan

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2006, 07:55:00 PM »
Hey- to all who have contirbuted:

Electronic messages may not convey all- but SERIOUSLY.

I deeply appreciate this discussion and all the input.  This seems like a real campfire discussion as it should.  

Also- not that I can help everyone, but any of you ever serious about hunting KS, feel free to pm me.  I can at least get you going in the right direction if you don't have any contacts.

Thanks Again-
Dan
If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat? ~anon

Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

Offline Molson

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2006, 10:38:00 PM »
Dan-

You don't have any mental limitations. They say archery is 90% mental and 10% physical.  I believe that to be true primarily because folks do not correctly identify the physical problem which is creating the mental one.  

You say you don't pick a spot.  I'll bet my best bow that when you shoot at a bale you can draw back and stack arrows one after another at 15 yards without FULLY concentrating on a spot.  So, is not picking a spot really the problem or is shooting high the problem?  They are very very closely related. Maybe when you get excited you lift your head higher.  Maybe you pull through your release.  Maybe you don't bend at the waist.  All kinds of things can happen when you get excited that cause you to shoot high. Think of it as a puzzle to solve and not a mental affliction.  

I kept dropping my bow arm.  I had that problem for a long time.  I tried everything I knew of to correct it and couldn't get it consistent.  I finally solved it because I was trying to figure out how Fred Asbell shot while wearing that fancy Fedora.  I discovered my body was actually facing the target too much and I was drawing at an angle which caused my bow arm to collapse.  Go figure.  All that practice and work toward solving a bow arm/release problem that didn't exist in my bow arm or release!

The bottom line is there is no mental problem in archery that cannot be solved by the correct physical diagnosis and proper remedy.  You just have to identify what is really going on.  

I will say that if I were having "mental" problems with my shooting I would buy a clicker or a sight in a heartbeat.  Then I'd use them until I fixed myself. That sight Trashwood showed would be a great tool to help you learn to pick a spot.  I'd bet with a little adjustment it would probably work with a canted bow too. These two items will help you determine where the flaws in your form are quicker than just about anything.
"The old ways will work in the future, but the new ways have never worked in the past."

Offline ahwataz

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2006, 02:09:00 AM »
No I would never give up.  Trad archery is harder which makes the reward greater.  As for your problem, you need to visualize where the "bullseye" is on the deer.  Focus on the spot and trust yourself!  Since you have no problems when you practice, I think you get distracted by the deer and lose focus.

Offline Jim Harris

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #76 on: March 09, 2007, 12:53:00 AM »
I had a compound, gave it to my brother a few years ago. I'll be sticking with my trad gear. Really enjoy it.

Offline JEFF B

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #77 on: March 09, 2007, 01:04:00 AM »
i had a compppppp oh hang on i am going to be sick yuk. dirty word go wash your mouth out. i love trad gear and i would never go back to that other thing even if some one said here is a free one i would just do with it like i did with one i had smashed it against a tree awesome explosion. you should try it some time LOL!!!   :archer:      :archer:      :archer:  oh yeah if things are a bit tough just try harder.
'' sometimes i wake up Grumpy;
other times i let her sleep"

TGMM FAMILY OF THE BOW

Offline MikeJMO

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #78 on: March 09, 2007, 01:42:00 AM »
Just started practicing with my longbow, this is my YEAR OF TRANSITION. Honestly couldnt say if i will get frustrated and give up. Cant hit junk yet.
I will have to see how I do when faced with the real test. But I wont throw out my compound because I had my first 3 bowkills with it. Plus, its not one of these new doohickey bows that has swiss cheese holes all through the limbs and riser, just a 97 PSE I got for 140 bucks at a pawnshop.

The trophy chasing at all costs is what turned me to shooting Trad.

Offline jonsimoneau

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Re: Any of you consider quitting trad?? Tough year. .
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2007, 10:05:00 AM »
Dan, it sounds like you've been at this game for a long time.  Maybe you are just having your confidence shaken a little.  You'll get it back.  I think that is normal.

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