Author Topic: video camera? (Read 5043 times)

Don Batten · « **on:** February 20, 2006, 06:59:00 PM »

I'd like to get one to film some hunts. I like the idea of recording straight to a disk. Any comments? Don

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2006, 07:52:00 PM »

Don, the disk cams record in MPEG2 codec which is highly compressed and does not work well if you intend to do any editing of the footage. If all you want to do is plug your cam into a TV and watch they are fine, however, you can get more camera for the buck by sticking with miniDVD tape. Less compression and easily edited afterwards without loss of resolution.

The small 3 chip Panasonics do a very good job and they have several models under $1000. They use small 1/6" chips so low light performance is not the best but video/audio quality is better than a single chip. If extreme low light is important to you you might be be better off with a single large chip cam like Canon's Optura50, also under $1000.

Weasel · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2006, 08:56:00 PM »

Hi Tom!!

Glad you posted that. I was getting ready to get a mini-DVD type myself.

Any recommendations for a digi-camcorder under $500?

Jerry

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2006, 09:40:00 PM »

Hello there Weez!

The Pana GS180 should be about $500. 3 chip and very good audio/video. Downside is that these cams are extremely small and light and hard (at least for me) to hold steady, and the 1/6" chips give relatively poor low light performance.

The Canon Optura50 is around $450 now. Single 1/3.4" chip. Good video/audio and very good low light.

You don't have many useful manual controls on any of the consumer cams.

I have next to no experience with the newer JVC's, and I gave up on Sony years ago, so can't tell you much about either. You are pretty much limited to these four manufacturers and quality wise there's probably not a nickels worth of difference between them. How they handle color and resolution, and how well the controls feel to you, (all subjective really) will probably determine what you want. Best to try each and see what looks and feels right for you.

Does this mean we gonna be getting some video for TradGang of Gods country soon?

Weasel · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2006, 11:53:00 PM »

Perhaps.

I don't have a clue as to how you size it for the web, or what software you use to do that.

Santiam · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:02:00 AM »

We are getting ready to film spring bear season...I got a Canon GL2 (used)...Maybe a little overkill but we wanted good video...

Taking movies is easy...Its the editing thats a killer....We are learning though..(slowly)...LOL

I was playing with windows movie maker tonite and had to take a break and visit tradgang and rest my head...Thats when I saw that Tom wrote,

"Editing is easy"...

Yeah right!!!

LOL

Weasel · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:11:00 AM »

I would love a higher end Canon, but the budget...

I have a Mac, which probably narrows down what I can use to edit it.

Tom, watcha think about this one? JVC Compact Series Camcorder (GR-D370US)

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/144487/originURLEncoded/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.circuitcity.com%252Fccd%252Fcategory.do%253FcatOid%253D-13063%2526N%253D20013061%252B20013063%252 6c%253D1/rpem/ccd/productDetailSpecification.do#tabs

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:16:00 AM »

Maybe I worded that wrong.

Editing can be a nightmare, for me anyway. I was referring to the fact that MPEG2 codec, as used on DVD disks, has so much compression that you lose a lot of quality in the editing process and end up with poor video. DVD should be used as an end product, not a videography format. If you want to edit video for output to tape or DVD you are much better off videoing in miniDV or even SVHS.

Movie Maker is a bare bones editing program with few options. It works great for making wmv files for internet video but that's about it. There are several consumer level editing programs under $100 that offer probably more features than you will ever need and most all of them offer try before you buy editions you can download online.

Looks like Weez is copping out on getting some Oregon footage to TradGang. Can we count on you for that?

Weasel · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:30:00 AM »

Plenty of Optura 50's on ebay right now. That's a good one, eh?

Looks like Santiam has the outfit for the Oregon footage. I looked up the GL2 on ebay. Yikes!!!

Hey Bill. Know how I was whining about selling that Mentor to Jerry P. at the shoot? I think he took pity on me and sold it back to me. :D

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:36:00 AM »

I have no experience with the newer JVC consumer cams so can't tell you much about this one. I suspect it has a small CCD and no manual features. I do like the quality of JVC products and use mostly JVC for my decks.

If I was wanting a single chip consumer cam I would look first at Canon. The Optura50 is a good one although buying used on eBay might be risky.

Not much available for Mac's for editing. Unless your Mac is an old one you should have iMovie bundled in the operating system which is all you really need for simple edits. Final Cut Pro is a high end editing suite and pretty pricey. Final Cut may have consumer grade editing software available like most of the other PC programs. Infinately more programs available for PC's.

Santiam · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:37:00 AM »

Yikes is right...I had to send it in to get some work done on it so it would be ready to go for April 1st bear opener...

I got the camera fixed,but now can't afford gas to go hunting...

Thats YIKES!!!

Sposed to be better than new now though...One can only hope cause I ain't sending it back...LOL..

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:39:00 AM »

Let me guess. Was you having head alignment and/or tape transport problems? The GL series cams are notorious for this, as well as having a lot of plastic in the case.

Santiam · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:45:00 AM »

Thats a pretty good guess.... :(

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:55:00 AM »

The GL is a good cam and a lot of outdoor footage is taken with them and the XL series, but I have yet to talk with anyone who has owned one for any length of time who has not experienced this problem. Getting cams out of warrenty repaired regardless of manufacturer is an expensive process. You also need to be careful not to let condensation form in these cams.

Weasel · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:51:00 AM »

You're right, I can get the Optura 50 for under $450 online. Gotta look at the differences between the 50 and newer Opturas.

I have iMovie and iDVD on my Mac.

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:44:00 AM »

This is the time of year when manufacturers release their new models so there is little info or hands on experience with the new ones.

One thing I have noticed over the past several years, and this applies to all 4 of the major manufacturers, is that every year they seem to be going backwards. Each new model year with the consumer cams features and functions are lost. Smaller chips, less manual controls, cheaper lenses, smaller and lighter. Apparently this is what the market wants but in my opinion the older models overall are better than the newer ones. Talking about the consumer cams here and not the proline models. The only advantage here is that prices come down also.

Let's review.

You are getting a new cam.

You have editing software on your computer.

You are a highly experinced photographer.

Conclusion: TradGang will soon be receiving beautiful video footage from Oregon...yes????

Seriously Weez, as someone who understands lighting, framing, and the importance of a tripod for good images, I don't think you will be happy with a cam that does not offer you manual features you really do need with digital video to get good images. You have been playing with digital stills for some time now so already should understand the limitations of digital compared with film. Although good editing software can tweak digital images in post it's always better and gives better results to do everything you possibly can in camera rather than rely on post editing.

Weasel · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2006, 01:13:00 PM »

What camera were you using for the DVD's you sent me a few months ago (Spud & Ugly, and the club hunt)?

I don't see much difference between the Optura 50 & 60 in a product comaprison. Except price.

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2006, 01:47:00 PM »

I didn't take that video. Spud took it with a cheap Hi8 Sony. Some of the higher resolution stuff on the ATHA video was taken with a small 3 chip Pana.

I don't think the Optura60 is still being made, not sure. The 50 is the last of that body style I think. Canon and Sony are both going to that newer body style which I personally hate like the Canon 400 and 500 series. I think Warren Womack uses an Optura60 so you might want to drop him a line with questions about it. He's had it in the shop for repairs but he sends me pretty darn good video taken with it.

They are cheapening up all the consumer cams in my opinion. Things to look for is chip size and number, full external manual controls such as manual white balance and zoom ring (not settings you have to go through a menu to adjust) and optical stabilization rather than electronic. The onboard mics on even $5000 cams are not good so external mic option is very important.

If you stay with a very reputable outfit such as B&H you can save some money on a used cam with a warrenty from them and get more cam for the same money you would pay for a lesser model new.

Weasel · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2006, 06:18:00 PM »

With a $50 rebate, B&H has the Optura 50 for $395...

Tom Mussatto · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:25:00 PM »

That's probably the last drop in price you're likely to see with that cam. I suspect when they're gone there won't be anymore available. The new models are already out.

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