TBM, Asbell, Short Bows, and Bowyer Question

[Caleb the bow breaker]

Hey all,

Got my new TBM last week and was particularly interested in Asbell's article on short bows for selfish reasons. Felt it was written with me in mind. I have always been interested in a shorter bow for all the reasons stated in the article but have always been told that a short bow is not in the stars for me.  

I stand 6'4" and have a draw length around 30.5".  I have always been told that 62" is about as short as I can go.  Is this true with todays bows???? Or is this a guideline that no longer applies???  I would like to shoot a shorter bow because basically all of my hunting is done from a tree or ground blind and long bows can be a problem in both situations.

What experiences do others have???  Because of the longer draw length I am usually left out of these sort of topics and am sure others can relate.  

My question to bowyers.  What are your recommendations?  What is the longest draw length you recommend for your short bows?  

Caleb

[Bill Carlsen]

Caleb: I suspect that what you have been advised is probably what you will have to live with. However, the advent of the DAS bows with the ILF limbs, which are very longlived, may be something to look into. I bet one of them in a 60" length would work for you. Your best bet, however, is to check with bowyers and see what they say. I know that Fedora makes some nice short bows. He would be the first one I would call.

[NorthShoreLB]

You can always shorten your draw.

[Dave Bulla]

I'm right there with ya at about a 31.5 inch draw.  Honestly, I've pulled 58 inch recurves that felt fine if the weight was under 50 pounds at 28 inches but the higher weight bows tend to feel like they stack more noticably.  But with a draw length like yours or mine, a 45 at 28" bow will be pulling about 50 to 52 pounds for you and ab out 52 to 55 for me.  That's plenty for deer.

That said, I still like a 62 inch recurve or a 66 to 68 inch longbow.  I have a 66 inch hybrid longbow that is my main bow and it will pull smoothly out to about 34 inches.  I have an old Root Targetmaster recurve that is 68" and 50# at 28" that is a wonderful shooting bow.  I don't hunt with anything under 62 inches.

My thoughts are that if you want a shorter bow for a long draw you will want to look for several things.  One is a reversed handle.  If the limbs are mounted to the belly side instead of the back, the bow pulls a little farther before it stacks.  You will also want a shorter riser and longer limbs so that there is more working limb to handle the strain of your long draw.  How much?  I couldn't tell ya but you will likely get plenty of opinions here and some good recomendations too.

[Orion]

Dave pretty much nails it.  A very forward handle on an extreme reflex/deflex design would also enable you to go a little shorter.  I don't have a long draw length, but my hunting partner does -- 30.5 inches.  He used to shoot 66-inch recurves and 68-inch mild reflex/deflex longbows.  Has recently moved to a 64-inch recurve.  He doesn't seem to have much trouble hunting out of trees with it.  Keep in mind that with your bigger/longer torso, your body and long arms also keep the bow further away from the tree, seat, stand, etc., enabling you to shoot a longer bow with less chance of interference.  My hunting partner also uses a Double Bull recurve style blind with his 64-inch recurve.

[Hogtamer]

You knuckle-draggers need to look at static recurves like Sovereign Ballistik or Rivers Edge.  The static tips make for a much lower string angle

[Hogtamer]

for example the Ballistik is 57"amo but will accomodate much longer draws without pinching, for what it's worth....

[Caleb the bow breaker]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

Makes me think of something else.  How much shorter does a bow have to be to help.  I currenly shoot a 62" Chekmate TD II.  Would a 60" really help.  That is only 1" off each end.

  :confused:    :confused:    :confused:    

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Caleb,

I draw 32", so I know what you're going through. With respect to your question about 62" versus 60" recurves; unless I was looking fr a bow to use in a ground blind, I wouldn't spend the money for such a small difference in length. My 62" Chek-Mate served me well for pretty much anything I needed.

[Tree man]

Proper materials selection can handle more than most of us are physically comfortable with. The problem with bows shorter than twice the draw length is one of string angles-We run into finger pinch and "stacking" as a matter of physics. Recurve limbs "unfold" differently than a longbow so we gain some advantageous angles and can fudge some....but a little over 2/1 Bow to draw length still FEELS best. With that said. Good recurve limb designs for short bows or radically deflex reflex limbs can feel pretty good. I shot a 52 inch Steve Gorr cascade recurve that felt smooth as butter to my  28" anchor. I bet his 56 incher would feel good at 30.5".
I've also shot 56 inch osage and sinew bows from Ed Scott  at Owl bows that  were smooth and non stacking to 28"-Thats 2/1 with natural materials. It can be done but it won't come from most bowyers stock designs. That isn't a slam on the bowyers. It makes sense for them to design their bows to perform best for the majority of customers. Some have alternatives for ultra short draw  or ultra long draw archers but many can't afford to try to tweak a bunch of things for a special order where the customer may still be unsatisfied.

[Bjorn]

Unfortunately bows last a really long time and bowyers have to find new trends to keep us spending-so along comes the shorter bow.
Asbell is just doing his job selling bows, the technology is called 'marketing'.

[Jeremy]

Bjorn, so I'm not the only one who's noticed after every Asbell article there's a run on something?  :D   Wool, short bows, etc    

With that long of a draw (mine's a 30" too) you can get around actual stack with stiff tips (notably the static recurves).  True stack is just a function of the string angle at the *limb tips*.  As the angle approaches 90 degrees the bow starts to gain weight faster - think of it as tying to pull the tips straight back instead of bending the limb.

What most people percieve as 'stack' is actually finger pinch - the string angle at the *fingers* which is determined by the bow length.   That's just a comfort thing!  Me, I'm not comfortable shooting a bow that's under 62" due to finger pinch (call me a wuss if you want to).  Others with the same draw length may be comfortable with more pinch (smaller angle).  Try a shorter bow and see if you can live with it.  

[Rico]

Asbell comes out with good sound advice. I don't see him pushing products.
  Caleb keep an open mind talk to some bowyers go to shoots and try the shorter bows.
 I went from a 60 to a 58 and yes there is a noticable difference especially from a tree. After reading his article I wouldn't mind trying a shorter bow. He didn't interest me into a BW just a shorter bow

[owlbait]

Check out the Saluki line of bows. Again, those siyahs or ears on the end of the limb make these shorter bows seem more long draw friendly.

[jwingman]

I had a 31 inch draw and was plagued for years trying to find bows that came back without stacking. I am a bit older now and my draw is a bit less, 30 inches. There are a lot of bows on the market now that are 60 inches and I can draw comfortably. Black Widow 60 inch TF and SA's, Several of the Hybred longbows are okay, Kanati and Shrew for instance, Morrison had some bows at Denton years ago that draw smooth out to 30 inches and were 60 inch or less. I haven't tried one yet but I hear the RER bows will come back that far smoothly. Talk to the bowyers. They will give you the straight scoop. They don't want anyone unhappy with their product. There are bows out there now that will allow you to shoot a short bow. They may be a bit tougher to shoot well but the stacking is no longer an issue if you find the right bow.

[WESTBROOK]

Ron's Shrew Scout recurve is good for 30", maybe more. Give him a call.

Eric

[JImmyDee]

I'm pulling 29-1/2" split-finger with a glove and nock over.

I've got a 60" R/D that pulls 60# and a 62" longbow that pulls 70#.  Shooting either of them more than a couple dozen times per day for a week or so puts a hurt on my index finger: callouses on the nail where the finger meets the nock and in the joint where the string rolls over the top of my finger.  The heavier bow does it sooner.  I added an extra layer of pleather inside the stalls - it helps, but the pinch still comes.  I no longer shoot those bows a lot.

I've got a couple +80# longbows that are 68" and 70" long: no problem at all.

My point? Trouble with finger pinch won't be obvious right away and how much trouble it will be depends on the draw weight.

[Caleb the bow breaker]

a lot of good advice so far.

[wapiti792]

Hey I went and bought me a 55inch Bear Cheyenne (thanks Elk Ninja)that I pull to 29.5 inches. Guess I'm pulling to about 60# or so. I have a 60in CM hunter 2 I pull to 67#. What I've found is that at the lighter weight if I do have any stack it's not noticable. I even go with the same arrow set-up but add 50 more grains up front. I have been amazed! My groups are tighter and getting into my ground blind and tree stands has been easier. I'll still elk hunt with my heavier set-up because it is a cool bow (my first custom) and shoots like a dream but out west I don't have as many tight spots to get into. I think the right bow, good mechanics, and practice make what's in your hands work anyway. Good luck!

[Ron LaClair]

Caleb,

There's a new long draw short bow coming soon. It's a 56" version of the Shrew Classic Hunter. We plan to have one at the Kalamazoo Expo the end of this month for long draw guys to try.

Here's a few pictures of an unfinished bow. First picture is the bow pulled to 28"

   

 

Then 30"  

   

And then 32"...   :eek: