HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Overspined]

Toddster,  I think most any bow that draws 5# lighter will feel more like butter. The lighter I go, the more buttery they get.  

I've shot a ton of different Hill and Hill style bows, and PAVAN's thoughts about tiller and design seem valid.  Some bows are finished and just have IT, and others miss the mark.  I've had identical bows from the same bowyer, and they feel totally different, and shoot that way too.

It's not always the species of wood.  Of the Howard Hill line, IMO the Wesley is their top dog when i compare it to the Cheetah, Redman, and Big 5.  I base that on owning and shooting them.  The tiller and bamboo seem to outperform the rest in feel at every point, drawing and shooting.  Tiller a 5 lam Redman the same way, with the same limb lam tapers, and who knows, maybe it's the same.  That's ONLY with HHA bows.  

Overall, I've not noticed a significant difference in arrow speed or where the arrow goes with most any of them.  The only one that Ive shot and is definitely slower, but is a pleasure to shoot, is the Miller Split Bamboo.  Take the glass away and WOW.  That bamboo is smooth.

Turay did some sort of measurements of densities of species of wood. He said the really dense woods seemed to add hand shock, like Osage in the core, but most of the woods, and bamboo, had really close properties. Ash, elm, maple are all really common solid core woods, and bamboo of course, and I know he uses some of these a lot.

A friend was saying how smooth one of his Hill style  bows was compared to another, from another bowyer.  When he put them on the scale, they were marked the same but the one was heavier than marked and gave him the feel of a tougher draw, which was true in fact.

[mikebiz]

toddster, your comments bring up a point I've been thinking about a lot lately.  Though these bows are both Hill-style, American Semi-longbows, they are quite a bit different in design and materials.  I think your experience and "feel" of the two bows is a direct result of the "string follow" limb profile.

You say the Sunset Hill is sweeter and more buttery on the draw.  I think what you are experiencing here is the magic of the "string follow" design and why it is desirable in my opinion.  I believe that the difference you are feeling with the Sunset Hill is created by the lessening of string tension at the onset of the draw.  I definitely notice a smoother, more fluid onset of draw on my string follow bow.  That carries smoothly through the completion of the draw.

In contrast Dave Johnson's bow is probably backset as that is how he ususally produces them.  I had an email conversation about that with him the other day.  He said he usually induces 3/4 inch of backset on his bows.  That's not much, but I've had similar amounts of backset on several bows some Yew, some Bamboo.  There's definitely a noticeable heft at the onset of draw.  It requires a little more strength to get the string in motion.  I certainly know that I'm pulling a little harder initially.  They are just a hair "buzzier" to my bowhand, but most of that seems to do with me correctly gripping the bow.  If I do everything right backsets are completely silent throughout the grip.

I wonder if the better "pointability" of the Sunset Hill is a result of the riser grip differences (something else to talk about later) or the string follow?  Do you think that your ability to aim and release is better with the Sunset or are you more accurate and precise with the Sunset?
I bet if you are more accurate and precise that it correlates with the forgiving nature of the design
Howard appreciated.  I think being "calm" in the hand really helps my shooting.  I feel I gotta be a little more on the ball so to speak, with a backset bow.

As for the difference in materials I haven't shot a Red Cedar bow, so I can't speak to its feel.  If I had to take a guess I'd say the bamboo bows will be a little more fluid and smooth.  My yew bows have felt darn near as good.  But they were both backset, so they had that going against them      

I love this technical talk.  Put your thinking caps on    

[mikebiz]

Good stuff, Overspined. I was typing while you were posting.

[Brianlocal3]

Here is my new Jerry Hill Wildcat 68" 54@28, two lams of boo, only glass running up the belly of the riser.  Dark brown glass.  The finish is kinda rough on the riser section, sorta like someone tried to do it themselves sometime. Riser is unknown, just  a dark wood.

 

 

 

 

   2" of REFLEX, WOW, it is something else to see in person.

 

   Locator grip, I am planning on building it out to a straight, but it shoots good.

[Brianlocal3]

The shelve is cut like a drainage ditch, its amazing,  My 2018 sits right in it.  It is un real.  Looking at the shelve from the belly it looks like "U" This thing shoot amazing, very very well behaved. Not too quick, but very shootable. The draw is extremely smooth, it does not feel like 54lbs so I will scale it to verify.

[mikebiz]

Cool bow Brian.  I've been thinking about a Jerry Hill just to try.  Saw a few of them around lately.   Gotta find my weight though.  

So is there only glass on the belly or back?  I'm confused by the pictures.  And take a shot of that shelf?  See if you can get a shot looking straight down it.  Thanks.

You also mentioned building out the grip to make it a straight.  I would love to do this with a locator grip bow I have.  How would you do it?  Add leather or some wood behind the grip?

[Brianlocal3]

Mike,
No lams run up the belly of the riser, only glass. And I am thinking of using epoxy putty to fill on the locator section, then rasp it smooth and to shape.

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by rushlush:
I just received a new to me Pete George, man does it zip an arrow. Will try to get some pics up soon.

Hey rushlush let's see the specs on that Pete George.  Pete's bows are awesome.  I just sold my last one and hope to find another in my spec range someday.  I only sold them because they were too heavy for me.  Loved his work.  The size of his limb tips is crazy small.  Fine craftsmanship.  Enjoy it.    

Oh, and you already know this but:
 

[Brazos]

I am curious about info on turning a locator grip into a straight grip.  I have a locator grip on my HHA bow, which I like.  My next HHA bow I plan to order straight.  If I decide I like the straight better I may convert the locator bow.  I was thinking using Bondo and then just sanding it down to where it blends back to a straight grip.

[Brianlocal3]

Brazos
If you clean the area well, get the bondo with fiberglass in it. Then build it up, it will take multiple applications since bondo is thinner and will shrink. Then as you said shape it seamlessly.

[Mushin]

I just did the grip on my Redman today. I used 2 part epoxy, built it up then used a sander to make it straight.epoxy seems way tougher than bondo.

[Bob B.]

Do you have any pics of the process or finished product Mushin?

Bob.

[Brazos]

Just regular old two part epoxy?

[Brianlocal3]

Did you use epoxy putty? the two part moldable?

[Brianlocal3]

herre is a picture of the shelve as requested.

 

 

 

[Brianlocal3]

don't mind that art work on the wall, the little girl is the next picasso

[Mushin]

What i use is locktite 2part,from the Home Depot.I mainly use it in furniture restoration.Once it dries it sands ok not as smooth as bondo but ok to cover with leather.Would love to post picture if somone can guide me through it.

[akbowbender]

I like that shelf. I'm having a bit of a time keeping the arrow on the minimalist shelf on my NM Classic when holding the bow vertical during tuning. That shelf would work nicely!

[Mushin]

Brian, the moldable would work better.I just use what i have.

[Brianlocal3]

So I got to shoot the JHill some more last night after the kids went to bed and I REALLY do like this bow. I will say I don't think it is made for a first time Hill shooter though.. It has more feedback at the grip than others that I have shot, and a newbi to Hill bows WILL feel the handshock, BUT with that said, if you have shot this style for a while and are use to some bump then they are pretty good bows.  My C&N is a faster,, and more gentle in the hand bow than this, as was the Wesesly. But this bow does have a lot of appeal. Enough that it took my C&Ns spot on the rack.