HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Nate Steen .]

Plenty of good long range longbow shooters...include Louie Armbruster and Jerry Gentalli as well....longer range shooting has it's benefits, if you practice such.

In today's control happy, PC, overly protective world,  we are conditioned to minimize mistakes and hurt by limiting the boundaries of our hunting situation to what we can control...which is usually distance.  But I read plenty of hunting stories in which a relatively short shot was messed up by the shooter or by an uncontrollable  interference and the animal was wounded...so it happens even with 20 yard shots....

[Overspined]

You know, picture after picture, Ron LaClair has some awesome photos in his Rolodex.  They are so classic looking, Awe inspiring if you ask me.  They say ADVENTURE.  That longbow just completes the vision. Imagine wheels in that pic...ugh, ok delete that image.

[Brianlocal3]

Originally posted by Overspined:
You know, picture after picture, Ron LaClair has some awesome photos in his Rolodex.  They are so classic looking, Awe inspiring if you ask me.  They say ADVENTURE.  That longbow just completes the vision. Imagine wheels in that pic...ugh, ok delete that image.

I couldn't have said it better!!!!!

And the Jerry Hill has been held up in the mail system. It was to arrive yesterday, but it is still in Nashville TN.  I leave for KY tomorrow morning so Ill have  yellow slip waiting when I get back.. Pic will follow for sure.

[Brianlocal3]

Ok gang, floors are swept, turkey is in the oven and the pie crusts are already pre-baked.  I bundled the rug rats up and outside we went.  

I put some 175gr on the legacies and BAM perfect flight.   I set up the paper tuning jig and I am getting bullet hole.  Man thought these arrows are ALOT heavier than I am use to shooting.  I think these are ready for cape buffalo LOL.  I will have to adjust to the trajectory but I am liking how they fly and I have a full dozen set up ready to go.  

Now to the important part.  BH and BH flight. I am going to look for some 175 gr BH and I am thinking they might work, but I am also wondering withe the extra length in BH if some 150 would put me on the mark?

I put two 125 Thunderheads on, and that is a no go for sure. They are whipping around and hitting left, (what I expected). So I then put on two Bear razonrheads without the bleeders (115gr) and they are flying lights out perfect. I shot from 10 to 50 yards and perfect flight the whole way (NOT at all what I was expecting) I have 9 razor heads floating around the house so I may just delegate them to the the Legacies for hunting.  

I am interested to hear what y'all think. And if it was YOU, would you just shoot the razor heads or would you drop the money and try some 150-175 grain BH

[David Yukon]

Ok Got the Northern Mist Classic, I have a few questions, the string look a little rough, what would you guys suggest for a string, it 68" 60#@28( I think I will draw at least 29...) so I would like to know what is the preferred string type for these Hill bows!!

Cheers
David
P.S. I will post picture later today... she's beautiful!!

[akbowbender]

Shawn,

James' interview was quite long. At the time, he didn't like the term "traditional" archers, though later on in the interview, he used it the term frequently. He felt that those who shot "traditional", and those who shot compounds, were all archers.

He was quite the visionary about traditional archery saying that those who shot traditional shouldn't look down on those who shot compounds, as most of the new traditional archers would be coming from the ranks of the compound shooters.

He felt that at the time, most bowyers didn't care as much about building a well balanced bow  that would perform well and last, as much as turning out as many bows as possible to turn big bucks on a bow that did shoot an arrow, but was overbuilt and clunky. I scanned the ads in that issue and noticed that very few of the bowyers that advertised then, are still building bows. Could be that they just retired from the business, but more probably, they went out of business because the quality (or lack of) of their  bows caught up with them and they could no longer find buyers for their inferior bows.

James' talked about his philosophy of bow building. Basically, take time and care in building a bow, and it will be faithful and perform well for you during it's life. He used different words, but basically that's it. You'd need to read the interview to get the full depth of his philosophy.

At the end of the interview, James tells the story of his mountain goat hunt in which he had the chance to kill a large billy, but blew it by a wide margin. He related the story to me over the phone, and then I got to read it in TBM.

He told me another story that he ran by them for inclusion in the interview, but they nixed it. I think it was a wise choice, even though it was kind of humorous!

Goshawkin: Was it a Viper that you bought from James back then?

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by akbowbender:
Goshawkin: Was it a Viper that you bought from James back then?

It's a Serpentine. I told James I wanted a mix of light and dark woods in the riser.I think he did a pretty good job on it! A friend offered me a nice Hill style bow for it.I've heard alot of good about those bows and I want to try it out,so it's a done deal. I'm going to miss my Berry bow,but how couldn't ya, just take a look at her.
 

[Bud B.]

Originally posted by Brianlocal3:
Sorry to break up the rythmn here ya'll, but my 2117s showed up yesterday.  They were already cut to 30 1/4" so I knew they would be too stiff to shoot with my standard 125-145 that I prefer to shoot and they are just a little stiff right now.
I cooked most of yesterday for a Christmas party, and I have been cooking and cleaning since 6:30am today so tuning is out today. BUT I did sneak in  a few shots while the kids were eating breakfast and they fly decent. I don't think ill have to do much.

Im going to start walking up the point weight and I am HOPING that 175gr brings me in. IF it does I am ordering 50gr brass inserts then I should still be able to use my 125 BH that I already have.  FUN FUN!!

I'd be tempted to try the 140gr HH heads with a long alum adapter to get you right there at 175gr. They fly great out of my Dave Johnson with 1916 Legacys.

[akbowbender]

Now that's nice, Goshawkin! Would look nice on the rack, but you got a Hill style out of the deal to ease the pain of letting it go!

[Brianlocal3]

Bud, I might just do that. Thanks

[Overspined]

I'm going hog hunting with Tarponnut in FL in a few weeks, and just about shot my shoulder to a pulp tuning arrows.  It's a Halfbreed Hill takedown.  50#@28" and 68" long.
 

I was getting some funny arrow flight and I ran out of arrow options so I had to make some changes.  

I ended up with 200gr broadhead, 65# tapered cedars, 28", a Dacron string instead of FF, and using my wedge on the grip I built up and shaped with leather.  The wedge helps me to keep from torquing the bow a little better than the sleeve.

I found this combo, arrow wt at 585 gr, was very quiet and great shooting.  I hadn't considered B-50 until I needed to make one more step to soften the bow a touch.  

So now I have three bows with Dacron, and I'm liking the feel more than I remember.  Although, I have learned and evolved how I shoot these past years, and maybe that's why.  I have been making and using my own strings, and have used primarily skinny 450+ 6 strand.  I'm thinking I really like Dacron again, it has a lower pitch humm upon release.  Lost performance but nice.

This 1/2breed has easy 2" or more of backset. It is a shooter.

[WESTBROOK]

Sounds like a serious Hog Killin setup Matt!

How did you build the wedge grip on the bow??

Eric

[MikeNova]

I've got that issue also with james Berry. He builds some nice bows.

[Ben Maher]

Overspined ...

we'll need pics of it afield brother !

great sounding set up .

[Overspined]

Hi Eric,

I took the small sleeve, partially removed the leather wrap, and used Barge cement to stack 3 layers of veg tanned leather in the shape of a pyramid on the belly of the sleeve.

I used an arrow shaft part to roll them nice and flat, and solid.  Then I took a skiving tool and shaped it so it looks like a solid, hard piece of leather with a good tight, rounded peak at the grip apex.  

I smeared barge on the grip wrap that I only partially removed, stretched it when "wet" with glue, and wrapped it all up. Funny thing is the size is perfect, no more hand placement guessing, and I just made sure to align it with the bow so it shoots right.

That's a chi Chen riser. Yew over boo. And it's got chi Chen limb tips.  It's a really poor photo in the brown room, everything looks yellow.

[emt137]

Matt- What did you think of going from a 45#ish bow to a 50#? I'm thinking about stepping up to about 50# also. Any impressions or feedback would really be appreciated.

[Overspined]

Hey Pat, shoot a 50 a little and see.  If you go to any shoots in MI I'll  bring one you can shoot. It seems each 3# makes a difference for most people. 53+ and my shoulder hurts, 50 and below I'm good.  I sure wish I could shoot more weight.

I think I recently learned how Hill set that low shoulder as you've probably seen in that pic of him at full draw with no shirt. It was hard for me to identify until the other day a buddy mentioned it. I played with it some and think I have it figured out. I may be able to handle more weight now...baby steps.

Made my little guy a quiver too.
 

[emt137]

Very cool, Matt.

One of these days I'm hoping to get to shoot Brian's Vixen & Misty Dawn...once he decides to share! Those will be about 53#ish at my draw so might help me be able to decide.

[canopyboy]

Originally posted by mikebiz:

A friend just emailed me the 2013 Kalamazoo line-up and David Miller is not on the list.  Anybody out there know if he's attending?  He was my first stop if I get out there this year.  Maybe he has too many bows to build because of this thread.      

Talked to David a couple of weeks ago. His waiting list is at 14 months right now, so he is busy. He knows about the hog hunt because he's building Bob Burton a bow that has to be done before that. Didn't sound like he was that interested in going himself though.  Don't know about Kalamazoo.

[subsonic]

Originally posted by akbowbender:
Shawn,

James' interview was quite long. At the time, he didn't like the term "traditional" archers, though later on in the interview, he used it the term frequently. He felt that those who shot "traditional", and those who shot compounds, were all archers.

He was quite the visionary about traditional archery saying that those who shot traditional shouldn't look down on those who shot compounds, as most of the new traditional archers would be coming from the ranks of the compound shooters.

He felt that at the time, most bowyers didn't care as much about building a well balanced bow  that would perform well and last, as much as turning out as many bows as possible to turn big bucks on a bow that did shoot an arrow, but was overbuilt and clunky. I scanned the ads in that issue and noticed that very few of the bowyers that advertised then, are still building bows. Could be that they just retired from the business, but more probably, they went out of business because the quality (or lack of) of their  bows caught up with them and they could no longer find buyers for their inferior bows.

James' talked about his philosophy of bow building. Basically, take time and care in building a bow, and it will be faithful and perform well for you during it's life. He used different words, but basically that's it. You'd need to read the interview to get the full depth of his philosophy.

At the end of the interview, James tells the story of his mountain goat hunt in which he had the chance to kill a large billy, but blew it by a wide margin. He related the story to me over the phone, and then I got to read it in TBM.

He told me another story that he ran by them for inclusion in the interview, but they nixed it. I think it was a wise choice, even though it was kind of humorous!

Goshawkin: Was it a Viper that you bought from James back then?

Chuck-  Some interesting insights.  I agree with not looking down on folks who do not use traditional equipment.  Most people these days shot a compound at some point.  

I am lucky enough to count a few bowyers and former bowyers as friends.  I imagine most are bowyers prmarily for enjoyment and profit is secondary.  I know my friends that no longer build bows for others got out of it because they were tired of making a hobby a job and all of the stress that goes with it.