HH bug got me ... Part One!

[two4hooking]

Those used Schulz are out there if you know what to look for.  My friend Mike just picked one up on the big auction site for $450 plus shipping.  The best deals are on the unsigned bows.  Study John's handwriting and limb tips, then when you think you found one call Craig with the serial # to verify.

Mike's tembo was listed 4 times without a bid. My redman was had for about $500 after deducting the quiver and arrows it came with.  They are out there.

I bet they will be a lot harder to find now that I wrote this though.

btw....there is a 101# lefty for sale right now!

[cahaba]

Thanks two4hooking. Appreciate the info.

[ChiefStingingArrow]

Originally posted by pavan:
In John's book the chapter titled "Hold it? your wrong", says it all. It is where the shooting style and the longbow come together. Every game animal that I missed, I was trying to hold it.  Everyone I hit, I did not.  I had a thing going in my head for a while, where I thought that I needed to slow it all down and lock in my anchor, to shoot tighter groups. I think that longer holding is what injured my release fingers. When one hunts on the sneak like I do most of the time, game animals tend to not wait around to see how tight of a group you can shoot.

What exactly did he mean by this or what did he say in his book? Did he mean to never stop and hold your aim on the spot your trying to hit?

Just trying to Hit em like Howard Hill. -Aaron

[Wannabe1]

[Wannabe1]

[Bud B.]

Originally posted by two4hooking:


btw....there is a 101# lefty for sale right now!

Yep. I made an offer on it that I thought was reasonable since a 101lb bow will not get shot much, if at all. Seller didn't even reply so I guess he/she thought it was not reasonable. If I got it, it would be a display piece and not a shooter for me.

I should get that heavy lefty, it would go well with my heavy pignut.

[cahaba]

I emailed Jet and made him aware that whoever built his website misspelled Mr. Schulz name.
I don't like to see his name spelled wrong or anything else either. But that wouldn't stop me from buying a bow if it is that good either. I wish Joel good success in his business.

Update: Mr.Schulz name is spelled correctly now.

[Mudd]

If everything goes as planned I'll be able to give you a 1st hand account of Jett Archery's stringfollow "Jaguar".

I look forward to putting it through it's paces.

If it shoots as good as it looks...it'll be a winner.

I have seen very few bows that pictures did justice. If the same holds true for Joel's bows I'm in for a treat...

I love traditional archery eye candy but even more so if it does it's job well...lol

God bless,Mudd

[RC]

I looked the site over and thought it was cool. He really only has good things to say about John Shulz and he could not find a bow to that standard so he started making them. Cool.
  for the record I would give a purty penny for a Shulz in my lb range.RC

[cahaba]

X2 RC

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by ChiefStingingArrow:
What exactly did he mean by this or what did he say in his book? Did he mean to never stop and hold your aim on the spot your trying to hit?

Just trying to Hit em like Howard Hill. -Aaron

This comes from John's second book,   Straight Shooting.  Chapter 12 "Hold It? - You're Wrong" is all about how the static, draw to anchor, hold, aim and release shooting style employed by target archers and those who shoot bows with sights, isn't effective in most hunting situations.  He feels that holding at anchor for any period of time can allow for a slew of distractions to cause a poor shot.  Anything from a deer flicking its tail to the wind blowing the leaves could distract the shooter that split second it takes to miss the shot.

He states that his idols, like the Thompson brothers, Pope and Young and Howard hunted with a fluid style that allowed them to take a wide variety of game animals.  Some of these men were also accomplished target archers, but they did not use the static target style when they were hunting.  It just doesn't work.  That's why John always reiterates Howard's words to him:  ". . . make up your mind what you want to do, hunt or shoot target, because the two just don't go together."

[Hank]

I was at Kalamazoo last winter and John Lee, David Miller and Joel Templin were all together in that center display area in the older section of the building -- that is like Hill Central.

I approached John Lee to ask him about Hill bow design, he pointed me towards David Miller and Joel Templin, he said that those were the guys to ask, they knew what they were doing.

Spent a lot of time talking with David Miller, I didn't know who Joel was. I did over hear him telling a guy that if he can teach a guy to draw a bow properly, he could have him pulling 70 lbs in a short time.

What I did get from him is that he was knowledgeable and a serious Hill style person. Hope he is there again next year, I want to ask about his bamboo.

I had a Zebra Longbow with me that was one of Louie's personal bows, they wanted to see it to check it out. Steve Turay got it and is building me a bow for it.

[ChiefStingingArrow]

Thanks Mikebiz

so....is it goog to learn the fluid draw from the start or should you start out learning to draw anchor slow?

I love Howard and John style of shooting....there is nothing better than watching those guys shoot....If you could put their shooting to music they would make the most beautiful music an archer could make!

[Ben Maher]

Thanks for the info Hank ...

John Lee and Miller in the same room is cool stuff for the longbow fiend ...

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by mikebiz:
 That's why John always reiterates Howard's words to him:  ". . . make up your mind what you want to do, hunt or shoot target, because the two just don't go together."

That statement always comes up when guys discuss Howard's shooting method.Was he an instinctive shot or did he use his "split vision " method.I think Howard was talking about the style and speed of the shot,that a formal  upright target  stance and a long hold while aiming at anchor just doesn't work out too well while hunting.Myself,I think Howard saw and used the arrow in his sight picture to aim and got to a point where he was very fast to get his arrow on the right spot before he let her go.

[Lambow]

I undersatand that Hill tought the split vision aiming method in his book "Hunting the Hard way"
and said he used that method in hunting... but also stated in a few of his hunting related story's about shooting a particular game animal by instinct.

I find it strange with all that Hill tought the Schulz boys, (John & Dan) from how to shoot (form) to bow building and hunting, that he never even mentioned the split vision method of aiming to them.

Hill also tought them to shoot with a dead release, while he himself, shot with a more fluid pull-through release.

Hank, are you saying that you traded your Louie bow to Steve Turay, for a bow of his making?

[Linwood Hines]

THANKS FOR THIS!  It seems that Joel Templin is, tho' unknown, quite knowledgeable and an able student of the revered. Now I'm even more stoked about the bow I've ordered from him!

Thanks so much too, for all of you all allowing me to "lurk" around here and learn from you.  Please keep 'em coming!  I hope my shooting will be worthy of your teaching, and the deer that get in my way.  

 

Originally posted by Hank:
I was at Kalamazoo last winter and John Lee, David Miller and Joel Templin were all together in that center display area in the older section of the building -- that is like Hill Central.

I approached John Lee to ask him about Hill bow design, he pointed me towards David Miller and Joel Templin, he said that those were the guys to ask, they knew what they were doing.

Spent a lot of time talking with David Miller, I didn't know who Joel was. I did over hear him telling a guy that if he can teach a guy to draw a bow properly, he could have him pulling 70 lbs in a short time.

What I did get from him is that he was knowledgeable and a serious Hill style person. Hope he is there again next year, I want to ask about his bamboo.

I had a Zebra Longbow with me that was one of Louie's personal bows, they wanted to see it to check it out. Steve Turay got it and is building me a bow for it.

[Overspined]

I'll check out Jet this weekend too.

Howard shot for a living.  Hours and hours behind a longbow. Talent, hard work! I think at some point he probably could shoot aspirin out of the air in his sleep. Shooting with his form is awesome when it all works out, and he had form down to a science.  So now assume your form was that good and then you could work only on aiming!!!  It's a dream, right?  How much arrow drop do you get with a 70#+ bow? NOT A LOT! Byron says he doesn't get any target anticipation (target panic).  He said it seems like most folks have some.  I'd say he's right or there would be a lot more Howards out there. I would be surprised if Howard really had to think about aiming much. He was an amazing talent and a few we're lucky to learn to do it his way, like Schulz, directly from Howard. What a great video Schulz gave us to analyze.  It is curious how he doesn't mention split vision.  Think of all the best athletes, most probably can't really explain how they do what they do. That's probably why there are some conflicting statements and stories about his process.  We can only strive....

[mikebiz]

I agree Overspined.  I would imagine that after shooting tens of thousands of arrows things just happen.  The body and mind become one and there is no thought process going on.  A switch is turned and everything around you disappears.  It's just you and the target.  Focus 100% and target panic disappears.  Couple this with a quick draw and release style and there's just no time to be distracted.  I don't believe there is any "true" aiming.  It's more like point and shoot.    

I think the biggest challenge would be distance estimation.  After countless hours of practice that too becomes automatic.  What do you get?  Dead game, dimpled dimes and bulls-eyes on the target field.  You can call it instinct.  And we can argue over whether or not "muscle memory" is real (I think it is).  The bottom line is that one must commit an unfathomable amount of time to his craft before mind and body merge to perfect the skill.  Unfortunately, do any of us have that time to devote.  That would be a dream      

Hey Lambow, good catch on Howard's release versus what he taught the Schulz boys.  Maybe this is a case of to each his own in the style.