HH bug got me ... Part One!

[MT Longbow]

Thanks guys  for your help, it is truely appreciated and I will try with your help to fix it....any other straight grip shooters out there????


thanks again guys!

Patrick

I will be signing off and heading for the cabin, no internet. I expect this thread to still be running when I get back before deer season opener. Take care guys and keep your strings waxed.

[hvyhitter]

you using a double nock on the string ?????????........sounds like arrow nock may be a tad loose,sliding down string at the shot and bouncing off the shelf...........YMMV

Originally posted by pavan:
I will be signing off and heading for the cabin, no internet. I expect this thread to still be running when I get back before deer season opener. Take care guys and keep your strings waxed.

Good Luck Paven!
be careful and have fun!

[Ricker]

Originally posted by hvyhitter:
you using a double nock on the string ?????????........sounds like arrow nock may be a tad loose,sliding down string at the shot and bouncing off the shelf...........YMMV

I bet that is the issue.....

[Greg Skinner]

If you are following Sunset Hill's instruction regarding grip and still having problems, I would also agree with the loose nock theory.  A nock that is too loose can do 2 things - it can slide down the string as mentioned above, and it can also cause you to subconsiously grip the nock with your string fingers as you shoot (to prevent it from slipping out and creating a dry-fire)which puts pressure on the nock at the shot, causing bad arrow flight.  Much has been said about the evils of too tight a nock fit, but I have had more problems with nocks that fit too loosely.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

I've shot hundreds of arrows on the string my new Redman is wearing, and they clip-on snug but not too tight. It has worked fine. Then just yesterday, with a newish arrow, I made a brilliant shot on a termite mound. Everything looked and felt good, but upon impact, I heard a funny little sound. I inspected the arrow, and found the two nock fingers had broken off, never to be found in the grass. So, was it a once-off weakness in that nock, or is my string fit too tight afterall?

[Rik]

While on the subject of tight nocks, let me regale you with my most spectacular screw up of all time in the field.

'Twas long, long ago, shortly after the end of the dark ages. The Age of Enlightenment had dawned upon me, and I had given up shooting with a clumsy tab and was now shooting like Robin Hood himself, bare fingered.

I had triple-served a string where my fingers contacted it, and had double-served the string where the nock fit. I shot the same arrow all summer long on this string, and was loving everything about being a bare-fingered shooter.

Then. . . elk season loomed on the horizon like a great screaming stag on the skyline. 'Twas time to hunt the mighty beast. I loaded up the pack animals (llamas), scrounged up a wench (uh, my wife Tracy) to accompany me  for a few weeks in the dark forest, and off we went.

Leaving the well-hidden tent and small camp long before dawn, we climbed a craggy mountain face in the dark and Lo. . . the mighty beast answered, and charged.

This was no common beast, he was a prime stag in all his glory, and he was coming to fight. In less than five seconds I had pushed the wench back out of the way to keep her behind me and safe (her arrow was nocked, but it was my time to shoot), and the beast was upon us.

I drew the mighty bow fully to my cheek and let the arrow fly. "twas a perfect shot. . .no. .  WAIT A MINUTE. . . what just happened? NOOOOOOOOO!

Alas, the triple-served string had served me well all summer, but the double-served area under the nock proved too thick for the new arrows which had brand new nocks. The string split the nock, which made the arrow corskscrew 15 yards and strike the mighty beast sideways. He ran away, back to the thick, dark canyon from whence he came, but I had safely protected the wench from danger (actually, she would have killed the beast handily with her arrow, but that's a tale for another time.)

I put a second "new" arrow on the string and shot. Same result, the nock split and the arrow flew every which way but straight. A third arrow did the same. I was crushed. I was devastated. I was a buffoon in archer's clothing.

And that, my friends, is the end of the sad, sorrowful tale of a lad who learned a painful lesson about only single-serving strings where they contact the nock—but still saved a wench from danger.

[Mudd]

Well told noble Rik!

 

[ChrisM]

Now that must have been heart breaking.  I had a nock too loose when I went back to woodies from carbons without reserving and dry fired a bow.  Talk about a whelp on a arm (I shoot recurves without an arm guard).  I now test every arrow the first time I shoot it to make sure it is firm but will come off with a sharf rap.

[Rob DiStefano]

imho, any nock that stays stuck to a center serving for any length of time, and for any reason, is far too tight and will cause  consistency/accuracy grief sooner or later.

i tailor the center serving to the arrow nock and i will sometimes use two strings for each of my bows - one served for 11/32" woodie nocks and one served for carbon nocks.  the throats of each nock are loose but don't "float" on the serving.  

with my typical 8 strand dyneema02 strings and carbon arrows, i use .019" halo center serving (TOUGH spectra).  it's a perfect fit.  i use .024" halo for serious woodie flinging.  

i use one cya soaked string fiber serving nocking point above the arrow nock.  the pressure from my middle finger's split finger grip keeps the arrow true on both the string and during release.  (split finger archers should have the majority of the holding weight on middle finger - if not, yer in trouble!)

i make my tabs from thin 4oz latigo leather and i can feel every nuance of the string during the draw and hold.  i want to really feel the string and can never ever get used to thick gloves or tabs.

according the last robin hood flick, mr. hood used thin leather (or animal intestine?) "rings" on his first and middle fingers, for his flemish string grip.

to each their own, it's all good ... maybe!  :D

[MT Longbow]

Raining out tonight , cnat shoot, watched all the VIDs from Sunset Hill and will try the grip asap.  if that doesnt work I will go double nock, the nock do fit well right now so maybe they are sliding just a bit but hard to tell.

More updates as soon as I shoot.

Thanks  to all the hard working bros out there, and especially Nate!

[MT Longbow]

Ok , it quit raining, i took advantage of a situation...I had 3 arrows from a friend , they were 30 Inch Beman MFX classic 600, (Ive been shooting 500's with an arrow weight of 536 grains with 145's field tips) and the 600's were 475 grains with 145 grain tips..  same everything other than 1 inch less and .600 spine.

I set up using my 500 arrows and tried the low grip i read about and watched the videos from Sunset Hill... No change from my HH on the arrow flight , i worked on back tension and really feeling the grip pressure in the lowest portion of the hand and the firm grip with the middle portion of the lower 3 fingers.

Nothing, shafts still kicking high, I tried no bow "cant" no change. still nock high flight.

Then i pulled out the dental floss waxed and got to the lower nock set.  tied it up  and made sure no pinch the shot again...and again.  really concentrating on form...great groups just low and slightly left with nock high flight.


Then I grabbed the 600 spine Bemans and shot with the same concentration and grip.  Very first thing I noticed... no vertical kick off the shelf!!

much improved arrow flight.  great groups when I did my part and the hand shock goes to zip when the grip is correct and the shot feels "right"

Im led to believe that with my 29.5 inch draw and my 52 lb at that draw length ...the 500 must be overspined and im slapping te shelf a bit wht the tail of the arrow...amazing to hear the difference in the sound..the 600's are really quiet leaving the bow where the 500 you can actually hear the slight impact on release.

I would not have guessed that or known it if I didnt check the 600's out.

Im happy but also SAD..

Ive got a bunch of money tied up into 2 dozen 31 inch Beman MFX 500's.

16 are still brand new!

my question is do you think I can add more point weight to he 500's  to make them flex that bit more?  Im running 145 grains and I was thinking about 200's  do you think that might be TOO much FOC?  thats 275 grains up front with the 75 grain HIT insert in there.

Should I sell all the 500's and just switch over to 600's?

I just like a heavy arrow and 475 doesnt seem heavy enough...


Thanks for reading all the way through if you got this far!

look forward to hearing your comments (I have not bare shafted the 600's as i dont have a bare 600 to use.)


Just happy  I made some progress.

After I shot the 600's I switched back and forth. 500 to 600 each shot...600's fly nice and straight...500's kick like a mule vertically!

Patrick

[Rob DiStefano]

After I shot the 600's I switched back and forth. 500 to 600 each shot...600's fly nice and straight...500's kick like a mule vertically!

happy or sad, there's yer answer.  we're all "experiments of one" and whatever works best will be best.  amen, brother.  

fwiw, i shoot well flying 29.5" arrows out of a 55# 'hawk - beman ics 500's and gt hunter 400's - 550 to 620 grains.  everything about you, yer bow and yer arrows are part of the shooting formula.  whatever works well for you consistently is the way to go and don't look back ........

[Nate Steen .]

mt longbow,

good news to hear.  each bow has it's slight nuances in what arrows it likes.  even wood arrows need to be tuned with point weight to get them right on due to the 5#spine ranges of most dozens...

another thing guys will fight with a straight-end longbow....fletching that is too large.  We've all heard about how wonderful high-back fletch is... but too tall a feather will kick slightly off the shelf or window.

it's wonderful to hear you state that when you gripped the bow right, the handshock went to 'zip'....so much for the theory that these bows kick so much that your arm falls off...  

[San Paolo]

Nate,
what size for fletching is correct? It depends on bow weight? What is the rule of thumb? I watched on you tube only one video from you the number 3: there are the numer 1 and 2 too? Please let me know.
P.S. That's no true you don't accept any more orders, do you? How many years do I wait for owning one bow made by you? Forgive me for my English.
Marco.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by San Paolo:
Nate,
what size for fletching is correct? It depends on bow weight? What is the rule of thumb? I watched on you tube only one video from you the number 3: there are the numer 1 and 2 too? Please let me know.
P.S. That's no true you don't accept any more orders, do you? How many years do I wait for owning one bow made by you? Forgive me for my English.
Marco.

i know yer query is for nate, but i just gotta jump in here ...

i see too many posts in this and other threads where guys think there is some magic formula, some special secret handshake knowledge for everything from shooting form to tackle.  the real truth is, there is no "magic" anything, there are very few "rules", and, with a few decent "cornerstone guidelines" to light the way, most of what you need to do with regards to "form" and "gear" is through self evaluation.

specific to your fletching question, marco - there is no "correct size" fletching for length, height, shape, offset, helical or number of fletches.  and the fletching has nothing to do with a typical hunting stick bow's holding weight.  what *might* matter is that tall fletches, particularly with a 3-fletch or 90x90 4-fletch, *might* react differently for you on release, with regards to the bow's "centershot", where the shaft sits on the bow, the arrow's spine and ability to recover, how you shoot the bow, and probably other considerations such as the degree of nock tightness, or lack thereof, on the center serving.  the common base line for most hunting arrow fletching is a 5.25" 3-fletch shield, parabolic or banana cut feather that's no more than 5/8" at the high point.  as with ALL our tackle, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for experimentation and the journey towards consistent accuracy is part of the trad bowhunting game.  "ymmv" does NOT apply here!  

[WESTBROOK]

MT longbow, I would order a variety of points, right up to 250g and try them. You should be able to get the 500's to fly good. I used to shoot full length MFX 400 out my NM Classic 57@30" with 300 up front, that was an awesome setup, abot 620g arrow i think.

Eric

[tg2nd]

Originally posted by San Paolo:
Nate,
what size for fletching is correct? It depends on bow weight? What is the rule of thumb? I watched on you tube only one video from you the number 3: there are the numer 1 and 2 too? Please let me know.
P.S. That's no true you don't accept any more orders, do you? How many years do I wait for owning one bow made by you? Forgive me for my English.
Marco.

Marco,
more then 19mm are too much for me and my bows. F O R  M E  17mm height works best.

[Ray_G]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
the real truth is, there is no "magic" anything, there are very few "rules", and, with a few decent "cornerstone guidelines" to light the way, most of what you need to do with regards to "form" and "gear" is through self evaluation.

as with ALL our tackle, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for experimentation and the journey towards consistent accuracy is part of the trad bowhunting game.  "ymmv" does NOT apply here!      

Well said Rob ... and that is why this "game" is such a blast!  Try this and that, bows, arrow shaft material, glove or tab, whichever quiver and on it goes.  It is a journey and when taken in the right frame of mind, leads to the "aaaahhhh" moments, which are delightful when you find what fits you and your methods.  For me, I love this Hill / Schulz style bow and back quiver.  Nostalgia, some;  practicality, yup for where I hunt; good times with friends - always!

Start with basics and general guidelines but be free to experiment.  Failures are only permanent when we don't learn from them.