HH bug got me ... Part One!

[xbmedic]

Thanks, Mudd! I will try to get some better pictures up here later.

Al,
Cool!  Pretty Koa...your local favorite I am sure...looks great!!

[xbmedic]

Thanks, Tony!

[Dick in Seattle]

Re overpass riser...

Don't get the riser style confused with the layup style.   You can lay the bow up either with all of the wood lams together forward of the riser and only the glass going up the belly fades,  or you can lay up with both glass and one wood lam going up the belly fades and over the top of the overpass.   Obviously, these two choices are equally available with a regular riser.   The difference is simply a matter of preference.   Howard liked all the wood lams together from a performance standpoint, and it does make for an easier layup.   I have never heard of a layup separating because of doing this.   (Though I have had a riser separate when it was simply glued to the layup, no glass going up the fades.)

I make my choice of which way to lay up the bow  based on the woods in the bow.  If I'm trying to emphasize the riser wood, I just bring the clear glass up the fades.  This is especially effective if you have some nice grain in the riser that shows when you saw out the fade curves.  If I'm trying to emphasize the limb wood, as with "Bird's Eye View", I will make sure the belly lam is thin (.050 to .060) and bring both it and the glass up the fades.  

The overpass riser style simply makes the layup easier.  You don't have to cut one piece of glass and you have easier curves to clamp.   I don't think it affects performance, but it may affect durability.  I think the shallower curves it provides make it easier to get solid, smooth clamping on the curves of the fades and thus a better bond between layers, with less chance of bubbles or gaps.

[Looper]

Ah, I get it now. The belly glass "passes over" the riser. That definitely looks a lot easier to glue up.

[Dick in Seattle]

Looper…   check out these two links.   The first is to a complete over pass riser build along and the second is to the info on the aluminum tube form, but also shows some good views of the per pass riser construction process.

 http://www.dickwightman.com/archeryactivity/bowbuilding/tgbow-2/swapbow-2.html

 http://www.dickwightman.com/archeryactivity/bowbuilding/newform/newform.htm

[Looper]

Dick, that's just what I have in mind.  Thanks for your efforts.

Where in Seattle do you live?  I've lived in Puyallup, Sumner, and Graham.  Graham was a great place.  Lots of elk and blacktail around.  We had to shoo the elk out of our orchard on a regular basis.

[3Under]

Dick,
I really appreciate the two links above! Being a non-bowyer it gives me a lot insite on making a Hill-type longbow. ( I'm working on my first osage flatbow-a real learning experience and muscle building one). At 72 I don't know if I have enough time to learn the lam. bow process    (LOL)!
Larry

Dick,
You have a great set-up there...

Thanks for the links!

[canopyboy]

Originally posted by 3Under:
At 72 I don't know if I have enough time to learn the lam. bow process       (LOL)!

Larry,

I'm thinking on the yardstick of life, you still have enough inches left to pick up lam bows as well.

 

[canopyboy]

On another note, I'm guessing that sometime tomorrow we might hit the 200 page mark.

Imagine trying to start at the beginning now.  I have enough trouble looking for things I know were said only a couple weeks ago.

[David Mitchell]

Hmmm, has the Hill bow buying frenzy slowed for a while???  No mention of such for a little while.  :confused:

[Nate Steen .]

David,

I concur with you....I think that as is the case in many Hill bow 'frenzies'....the lack of proper instruction as to how these beauties are handled leaved many guys out in the cold and without the affection of their 'Hill-bow Sweeties'.

 I think that just about anyone can grab a recurve or R/D bow and be successfull, because they grip/hold similar to a compound (of which many guys are converts).  Hill style bows take some extra dedication, devotion, and committment, and attention to certain handling criteria.  Lack of this instruction or committment to the task results in unsatisfactory results and a shelved or sold longbow....how very sad   :(

[MT Longbow]

Sunset Hill I would love for you to do a short video on the proper grip and way to shoot the bow, then have a shot where you show yourself from th side  so we can see your grip and the bow in action as you shoot a string or two....I know watching your form would only help mine!

Patrick Hover

[Shakes.602]

Do I detect a Hint of Sarcsim there???   :confused:        

[Rob DiStefano]

imho, there is no "proper grip" to any bow, only the grip that is most consistent for you, the shooter, and no one else.

imho, in the best of all worlds, there should be one pressure point of contact 'tween the back of the bow handle, as close to the arrow shelf as possible to reduce any unwanted leverage, and some single point of the bowhand's palm.  

no, not the entire palm of the hand, just one point.  if you reference asbell's latest gem, 'advanced instinctive shooting for bowhunters', you'll see the best general area for the bowhand pressure point nicely depicted.  

once you have found that sweet pressure point spot (which should be almost too easy to feel), the rest of the hand - the palm and fingers - exert ZERO PRESSURE on the handle.  this allows the bow to pivot on your bow hand's pressure point and will prevent the common 'heeling' of the bowhand on release that cause so many bad arrows.

the bowhand's forefinger and thumb touch, thus holding the bow from punching out of yer bowhand upon release.

this type of bowhand pressure point also allows the bottom of the bowhand (pinky et al) to angle slightly away from the riser/arrow shelf, which gives lots of bowstring clearance on release.  it also demands that you need to do what you should be doing all the time - using yer back muscles to 'push-pull' as you aim and release.

you can use this type of single pressure point grip with most any type of handle grip - straight, dished, soft locator or recurve pistol.  

it is easier to find that pressure spot with a soft locator grip.  you can wrap a straight grip with one turn of 1/8" leather right under where your pressure is located for quicker reference.

[MT Longbow]

Ive heard  alot about the way to heel this HH bow of mine to get the shorter lower limb to flex properly.  So RDS I get confused when you advocate (that may not be the right word)a more traditional grip such that I used for ever on my compound and my othe RD longbows.  Dan Toelke teaches a very different gripfor his Whip style bow due to the grip being almost the same as a recurve, than I get from the HH shooters.  So in essence they are very different ways to hold the bow. Asbells book, I have it, and he, I believe is instructing on a very high wrist high hand hold for the recurves he is shooting.  I am going to get his second book which I heard he talks more about traditional longbows  with straight grips and similar to HH long bow style grip where the pressure is more low wrist and heeling. holding and shooting my HH 70 incer with a high wrist just doesnt work too well for me.

[Rob DiStefano]

i won't talk about the wrist or bow arm placements.  those are matters for each of us to suss out and decide what's best.  what works for me may not work for you, in those two criteria.  

however, the 'single point of bow handle/bow hand' matter is, imho, irrefutable - it's physically the most consistent approach to allowing the flow of energy during release to consistently move the bow in one direction.  

this is due to just that one, SMALL pressure point.  

if you have a broader pressure point, or multiple pressure points, you can easily see how consistency becomes much more difficult to achieve.  i see this ALL the time with archers who have good shooting potential but are being held back by a bowhand that's "sloppy" and quite inconsistent, and that leads to spraying arrows all over the butt (if the butt indeed gets hit) as opposed to far closer arrow groupings.

there are MANY factors of form that affect consistent accuracy.  imho, it all starts with picking up the bow and how ya hold it.  it's the first thing we all do before we even reach for an arrow.

[Rik]

We're all different. but I would wager that any of you who haven't quite got your Hill bow dialed in yet would just squeeze your pinkie finger when you shoot, your groups would tighten right up.

[canopyboy]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
....the lack of proper instruction as to how these beauties are handled ....

Lack of this instruction ....   :(  

So, any accomplished Hill shooters in the Northern VA, Washington DC area?  Teaching myself is slow going...