HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Rob DiStefano]

as best as i can place it graphically, my bow hand pressure point ...

 

 

 

[Steve Clandinin]

Fellas take heed of what Rob is telling you here .When this thread first started and I got back into HH bows my shooting was completely erratic ,since adopting Robs advise my shooting of these bows has improved ten fold.Last night I scared myself how well I was shooting,I never thought I would shoot my Hill bow that well,KUDUS my friend.

[Greg Skinner]

This discussion of how we grip the bow has been interesting, to say the least.  As I look at Rob's picture, my spot would be about an inch lower and slightly left of what he has indicated.  I don't grip very hard and the index finger of my bow hand just sort of floats there while my pinky, ring finger and middle finger do the holding.  All of the pressure is on the one point at the base of my thumb which gives the full strength of the entire arm bone behind it - little or no muscle, just the bone. That point does pretty well center the handle of my Hills, but I shoot my other r/d bows the same way, which is why I favor a straight grip (or very slight locator).

I don't know how much effect the tiller has on this, but I'm sure there is some because I could never shoot bows with a recurve style grip without changing my entire wrist position.

 If I recall correctly when Craig sends out a blank for finishing he marks where the shelf is to go and also gives a mark for the center of the bow.  I presume that center is the balance point from which he tillers, but I have not checked either of my blanks with a tiller tree.  I just count sanding strokes and check to be sure the string stays centered and that there is about 3/16" difference in tiller between upper and lower limbs at the fadeout. That seems to have worked well for the ones I have done.

[Nate Steen .]

Rob is correct.  For best performance, the bow must be tillered based on where and how much pressure you put on the grip/handle.  The old style longbows...aka English, self, Hill style, etc.  are designed for a full hand pressure against the belly of the grip.  Since about the middle of last century, with more contoured grips being the norm on recurves and r/d bows, the majority of shooters employ a smaller point of contact from the hand to the bow.  I believe this is because of the inherent tendency of thin recurve limbs to twist if the bow is torqued.  Hence the old-mainstay popularity of a thick limbed longbow and it's twist-resistent limbs. Also, a contoured handle lends itself to this grip method.  However, as Rob D's experience bears out,  having a straight limb style bow tillered to the shooter's own shooting and grip style can result in a good shooting bow. Tillering and timing the bow for a full hand style of grip versus a small contact point grip makes a world of difference in how the bow will shoot.

Byron Fergeson uses a low wrist full contact grip, and his bow handles are dished pretty radically and he uses a loose, open hand style grip.  Another example of how a straight limb bow can be modified to fit individual shooting styles.  

[Looper]

I think we're all saying the same thing.

[MT Longbow]

YEP!!! my HH bow is tillered as it is for the straight grip , low wrist pressure for the lower limb,  last night I gave it some more pressure in my grip and held it tight...I layed the bow over a bit to fix my hitting left (if you remember form my last post at 30 yards and viola....even better groups and centered this time...shot 110  (11 arrrows x 10 trips to the target bag)  and was impressed with the improvement...***This HH Robin Hood DEMANDS a firmer grip than I was giving her and after that she was even more accurate....***  I love it!


Lesson Learned hang in there and dont quit on the bow...keep working until you find how she wants to be held and danced with...when you find that....sear it into your muscle memory and DANCE!!

[flint kemper]

Guys, I would add some photos as well but my broken wrist won't let me. I am hoping for a full recovery so I can shoot again period. This has been a good thread. I am glad to see people showing what works for Them. Flint

[Nate Steen .]

Flint,

sad to hear....I'm sure your Miller has been lonely....unless you pick it up from time to time and caress it gently.....  

[flint kemper]

Nate, I can still fling my back quiver on a get arrows out by the nock so not all is wasted. I see the ortho today so we will see what he says surgery or recast it.

[frank bullitt]

Uh, who dropped the BOW! Keep this up top, please!

Okay, let bring up other "Hill" Style bows. I'll start with Dave Johnson's Cedar bows from Bethany, Ok! Anyone have pics? I really like these, wish I had one!

[Overspined]

I laughed when I saw your pics, Rob. The biggest error I see people make with not liking Hill bows is the grip. People either can't figure them out, or can't get used to shooting with the grip that will likely work well for them. I like the grip straight, or very nearly straight so my hand doesn't collapse into looking like your photo on the left. Generally I would say a reverse handle bow will allow more of the first hand placement pic because the torque is reduced, but the arrow spine will differ from the shooter with your second hand position (right pic), where there is less torque and a cleaner arrow upon release. My hand is shaped different so it kind of looks like a mix of the two, but I can say that there is really no contact on the right side of the bow (rt handed shooter) other than my thumb wrapping around. The fat or muscle of my thumb is only pressured on the very belly of the grip, and around the shelf side. Also, very close below the shelf. The bow doesn't torque, is silent, and consistent. Also minimal vibration. Some variation of your pic on the right, although it may feel funny, will usually end up being the ticket in the long run.

[Overspined]

I also like the added photos of where you are pointing out the pressure point of the bow on your hand...well defined and I can't agree more.

I remember the day I was shooting and my hand got sweaty and kind of rotated around to the shelf side of the bow and %&$%&!! I was shooting groups like I have never before! It turned out that my pressure ended up in the right spot. What a difference, lesson learned. I started to experiment with different bows and grips and found that hill straight grips allowed me to hold it to my advantage and I can just shoot them the best. Everyone may have subtle differences in anatomy and feel that dictates which shape grip they find most effective.

[Buckhorn47]

Overspined, I agree totally with your discovery. Years and years ago I picked up a Hill bow at an archery centre and shot two arrows. I thought that this has got to be the hardest shocked shooter I have ever tried and that was it - no more HH. As years went by, I gravitated back to the straight grip, straight limbed longbows, tightened down on the grip, moved my hand out s bit to the side so the pressure was more as Rob indicates, and " voila! consistency was back and shooting is fun!

[Nate Steen .]

Guys,

if any of you haven't seen Schulz's video..."Hitten 'em like Howard Hill" and would like to watch the video,  Chuck at Two Tracks is done with my copy and is willing to ship to whoever wants it next...just pay for the shipping to the next guy when you're finished....

Nate

[Mudd]

One of my old favorites that I let get away from me a couple of times is back home.

I have been waiting for her arrival to shoot this weeks round in the TG fun shoot.

Just to refresh RC's mind at what she looks like, here is my Howard Hill Cheetah 66" 56@28 aka "Keeper Kat".

 
 
 

These were shot according to this weeks rules.

10 yards, crouching with the bow held parallel to the ground without any warm up shots.

I set up two barrels and put a timber from one to another to simulate the hunting conditions described for us.

The arrow at the top was my 1st fired out of "KK" in months.

 

These are the next 3.

 

God bless,Mudd

[petertschantz]

Mudd, I sure hope you hang on to that one this time!

Pete

[Steve Clandinin]

Mudd,I can't believe your Cheetah has the exact specs as mine ,they are shooters !Very good shooting my friend!

[Montauks]

Nice arras and fine shootin!

[swampthing]

I went all out today, striped the feathers off a shaft, and moved my hands all over the place to find what makes'em fly straight. I used to shoot like this, wrapping my hand around it and shooting.  
My hand like this makes'em fly a lot straighter.  
Very subtle difference but all I did was cock my bow hand to the right about 25deg from vertical. This allows the handle to "ride" in the "taco valley" of my hand. Point your thumb and 4 fingers of your bow hand straight out and form a "U" shape, now tilt your wrist back towards your face, look in between the digits valley that is produced.

[swampthing]

Eye candy with the good light shine'in down.