Not what some want to hear about carbons

[dan ferguson]

I,m new to the carbon game. got a dozen for Christmas and another dozen I,m going to start on, bought them full length, now the first thing I do to woodies is to spin them and check the for straightness so I decided to check these carbons, Is .010 runnout RIGHT??? Heck the woods I get from Paul are twice that straight. Now I,m no pro shooter so it won,t probably bother me, but I did find it intresting, another note not all of them were .010 some of them are very straight, so I guess you need to use the cull system on carbons as well

[JC]

Not sure what carbons you purchased or where from...but I've seen 1 woodie out of 100 spin as straight as any of the carbons I use.

[joel smith]

There is just as much variation in quality of carbons as other arrow materials---why would you expect anything else ? You pretty much get what you pay for, just as with wood or aluminum. Best carbons now are at .0008 (yeah, you read that right,four decimals) can't get much straighter than that.

[Steve H.]

A wood arrow will outshoot it's overall straightness if the point and nock taper are both aligned so it's not AS significant.  Many of us lerned that decades ago when comparing woods to Aluminum.  A slightly bent AL will shoot around corners, not necessarily true with woodies.  Bottom line is ALWAYS, how do they shoot and can you outshoot their straightness?

[LV2HUNT]

Which carbon arrows did you purchase?

[tradtusker]

iv never had that with carbons or at least not the ones i bye, what carbon arrows did you get?

[wtpops]

I know what you mean, I got second dozen in two years, thought I would give them a try again, for the price you would think they would at least be as stright as xx75 aluminum but no.

[Bjorn]

I bought 12 top of the line carbons (won't say which ones), my spine tester said the spine numbers were all over the place?! Anyway I wrestled with them for a few weeks and went back to my DT woodies. It felt just like coming home.

[wtpops]

the carbons I got are advertised .003 just like the xx75's i use but on the spiner they are much more visable wobble. They may be within the .003 I have no way to check but they don't compair to the xx75

Still going to try them and see what happens

[James Wrenn]

Go shoot your wood and carbons 10 times and measure them again.  :D  Lay them both out in the yard during a shoer and check them again.Heck just put them in a quiver about twice and check them again.Just like a crisp new bill, it ain't wrinkled untill you use it.  

[Chortdraw]

I like my alm. arrows because if they are a little out I can straighten them to what I want. You can make them straighter than they come from the factory. I check all my new arrows before I even fletch them. Some are good and some are not.

[insttech1]

I am curious as to what method you use to actually quantify runout at an estimated 28" length from any given starting point?

Are you also saying .010 from outer wall edge, or .010" from center?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying your results are inaccurate; I just wish to know if the actual shafts are truly more than ten times the average industry tolerance of around .006", since this is one of the industry's big selling points--straightness.

Thanks Much,
Marc

[Gator1]

A good question, for you carbon shooters, is there much difference in shooting.

.003 vs. .006 straightness tolerance???

[James Wrenn]

I or anyone I know can not shoot the difference in the worst or most straight carbons made.It would take a world class archery shooting long distances to see the difference between .003 and .006.And then I don't think it is possible shooting fingers.    jmo

[insttech1]

Yes you guys are right... as a tolerance delta of .003 to .006 is negligible to us...

However, .010 is HUGE!  It probably even precludes the ability to tune broadheads for wobble on a jig, let alone flight.  I suspect we could even see that as stickbow guys without sights, just shooting field points.

Take Care,
Marc

[Labs4me]

I personally will never be a good enough shooter to appreciate the difference between .003 and .006 straitness. I also am not a good enough shot to appreciate the difference in a 2 grain or less variance between shafts. I practice out to 25 yards and set up my stands and trim my trees for 15 yard (or less) shots. At these distances, there's just no way to appreciate this subtle of a variation between shafts. BUT here's the thing. When a product (any product) is marketed to deliver a certain level of quality, when I lay down my hard earned cash I EXPECT to receive what is promised. If it says guaranteed strait to .003 and the weight is guaranteed to not vary by more that 2 grains between shafts- is it unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to deliver what is promised?

Regarding the subject matter of this thread, I had a very in depth conversation with a gentleman named Cody who is a rep for one of the larger carbon arrow manufacturers, after discoverring that a third of my shafts had a VERY pronounced wobble and varied in weight by up to 18 grains (within the same dozen). This became apparent because, before I bare shaft tune my arrows, regardless of what material they happen to be, I ALWAYS spin test my shafts to check for WOBBLE and then weigh them to check for extreme weight variations. Because I have no way to varify straitness to .003 tolerance, I simply spin them on a broadhead aligner to visually check for "straitness". It would seem counterproductive to attempt to bare shaft "tune" a less that strait shaft and this is why I spin them first.

What I was told is that the wobble and weight variations that I observed were more than likely the result of inconsistencies in the thickness of that walls of the shaft stemming from the manufacting process associated with making carbon shafts.

The purpose of this post is not to bash carbon arrows. I hunted with them last season with good success and found this particular brand to be about as durable a my XX78 2216s and 2219s. But the fact of the matter is that these shafts were not nearly as consistent with regard to weight and straitness (or wobble) as my aluminums.

[SteveB]

If carbons are that bad, why are are most shoots set up so that they are not allowed in the wood arrow classes?

Steve

[Gehrke145]

I didnt read all the posts but Ive never seen carbons spin worse then wood even the cheap ones, same goes for spine (yes the cheap ones will vary a bit but come on what do you want for under 50 bucks a dozen).  When you spin them make sure your not on the writing on the shaft.  Before I became a cop people would come into the shop I worked at and complain about that only  once in a blue moon (and these are top not target archers that shoot with lenses and such)and that was the problem 99% of the time.  Just a thought

[jindydiver]

Are you guys for real? Could you really see any difference in arrow flight with an arrow .010 off straight?
Sure I see the issue of getting what was advertised, but in a practical sense is it important?

[Gene Roberts]

I use carbons,seem fine to me.