Modifying the Wensel Woodsman tip (now with harvest pics)

[RGK]

I’ve been asked by a friend To outfit him with a arrow and broadhead combination for a February Buffalo hunt out West. He is using his current whitetail bow but wants a heavier arrow/broadhead set up. Everything I have heard and read about Bison is that you should be shooting for the heavy carpet that covers the front shoulders. I would expect that this hair is thick and matted and since the hunt will take place in February, that it might also be ice covered. For this reason, I will be shooting for an arrow weight over 700 grains.

 

After looking around for arow shafts, I settled on Carbon Express Heritage with the wood grain look. These shafts weigh around 12 grains per inch. The shafts are on order. Next, I picked the Wensel Woodsman as the broadhead for this hunt because I wanted him to use a strong, cut on contact head. The 3:1 aspect ratio of the woodsman means greater penetration. I ordered from 3Rivers, a half dozen 125 grain Woodsmans and since he will be screwing these into a carbon shaft, I also got some 100 grain steel adapters that are needed to mount a glue on style head to a carbon arrow. For added weight, I also got 50 grain brass arrow inserts instead of the normal 15 grain aluminum inserts. I also got him some brass weight washers.

 

I am trying to create a front heavy arrow (FOC moved forward) after reading Dr. Ashby’s report on extreme FOC arrows and their increased ability to penetrate. So far, that adds up to 285 grains at the tip alone. The shafting weighs 12 grains per inch and he uses a 29 inch shaft for 348 grains of carbon. He is using a luma nock and (3) 5 inch barred turkey feathers so that should add another 30 grains putting us at 663 grains so far.

Since my son and I are working on a broadhead collection, I used one of our Wensel Woodsmen heads to do a little testing. The woodsman has a very sharp tip but bison bones are big so I filed a secondary tip angle which shortened the head by about an 1/8 of an inch but will make the tip less likely to bend or curl upon impact with a large bone. I am planning on a worst case scenario in that he hits a rib on both sides of the bison.

 

Next, I took the woodsman and sharpened it to a fine edge and then lapped it on ceramic plates to get a mirror finish on the cutting edge.

 

 

[RGK]

In an effort to show my friend the benefits of a cut on contact head, I set up an experiment where he and I used two very common and popular heads on the market. A Muzzy and a Thunderhead that were in our collection. I used a short length of shaft and some sponges to keep the arrow from sliding around on the scale.

 

 

I used a very thick and heavy piece of boot leather as the test medium. I placed the leather over each broadhead and by holding the leather out at the edges, pressed down until the head passed thru the leather. My friend watched the scale to check the poundage. I started with the Muzzy. I pushed down until I reached 30 pounds of force and I could not get the tip to go thru the leather.

 

Next, I used the Thunderhead and when I applied 24 pounds of force, the head came thru but ripped the leather until the blades could start cutting. The thunder head hole is to the left on the picture above.

 

Lastly, we used the Woodsman and It went thru the leather so fast and with such ease that we repeated the test several times to make sure we could trust the results. After 4 tries, we kept coming up with the same results. It took 6 pounds of force to slice thru the leather and there was no tearing, just clean cuts. There are other heads on the market with cut on contact tips that are just as good but I think the Woodsman was a good choice for this hunt.

I hope to have the shafts in a few days so I can begin to construct the arrows. In order to reach the 700 plus final weight, I have decided to use a few 27 inch lengths of .065 string trimmer (weed whacker) line that will be placed inside the arrows. This will ad weight from front to back but will not change the arrow spine which is 350. I will post more as the project progresses.

[RGK]

Well, it seems that I was not re-inventing the wheel with my broadhead test. Watch the attached video. Dale from 3Rivers does it with a soft (and thinner) tanned elk hide. My hide was full grain so it took more force for my test. He also did his test with what looks like a Magnus head. I think the bones and heavy carpet over the shoulder of a bison warrants going overboard in terms of penetration.

I should have known Dale would have done this sort of test. He is as anal as I am. Dale's Parents live about 5 miles from mine. I saw him at Compton last year. He still occasionally hunts in Rosholt.

 

 

[Walt Francis]

Ron,
I use Wensels with the factory tip and a modified tip like yours and haven’t found any difference in penetration on whitetails.  For elk I use the modified tip but I do not think that it is really necessary.  As for a bison arrow I used a 625 grain lodge pole pine shaft, footed with purpleheart, and tipped with a 190 grain grizzly.  Total weight of the arrow was 625 grains.  I used a 58# selfbow and got plenty of penetration (16 inches and through a rib) at fifteen yards.  It appears your setup has plenty if energy to do the job if you put the arrows where it needs to go.  My only recommendation to your setup would be to use a two blade broadhead if you are worried about penetration.  However, my hunting buddy, Lenny Brown, used a Wensel with the factory tip on a bison with excellent results (centered the heart).  His setup was a Robertson longbow which pulls about 53-55#’s at his draw length and a cedar arrow weighing around 525 grains.  I shot mine in December when it was around 15 degrees with sixty mile an hour winds (gusts above eighty) but don’t remember seeing enough ice on the sides of the bison to effect penetration.  My shot was slightly quartering down wind and the arrow was tailing about three or four inches on impact, which probably hindered the penetration some.  To get you a little more excited, here is a picture of me with the bison.  

 

Oh ya, half of the arrows in my quiver were 650 grain hex shafts tipped with Woodsmens that I was going to use until I changed my mind at the last minute.

[Over&Under]

I do not have any experience with WW's, but very good post with some excellent enfo!

Really gives some weight to the cut-on-impact broadhead as being the best for penetration.

thanks for posting!

jake

[tomh]

That is some good info, and Walt that is an awesome picture!

[doctari]

Nothing against the Wensel Woodsmen broadheads, I use them for deer. But I would use the 190gr grizzly also. There is alot of bone mass in that buffalo. JMO

[Tree man]

I'm not trying to pick a fight or disparage the Woodsman broadhead but... You are obviously reading Ashby-you refer to him and heavy arrows/high FOC arrows etc. so why not a 2 blade?

[Deadsmple]

Like some of the others have asked. Why not a two blade? I prefer the grizzly. I'm not a big fan of the WW's at all.

[RGK]

I could not talk this hunter into a 2 bladed head nor a single bevel. I tried. The heads I make for my own hunting are single bevel heads.

You can lead a horse to water.

Walt, great beast you got there.

[NorthShoreLB]

Cool Thread !!      

[BobW]

looks like you got some of the few "good" Woodsman heads.....

[killinstuff]

I killed my Bison with a 160 STO's at the end of a POC footed shaft for a total weight of 625gr. I shoot a 60# longbow. That's a good drawing of the Bison you have and the spine does sit lower then you think. I know because that's what I hit when I shot and dropped the big critter in it's tracks. The broad head is fine and ready for it's next kill.

One thing about the Bison, it takes them a little while to leave the group memeber that you shot and might get the idea to chase you. Just an FYI

[Terry Green]

I shot a 2000# buff with a 70# longbow and  a two blade on a 730 grain arrow, and it deflected on a rib and penetraited only 5 inches OUTSIDE  the rib cage from 15 yards.....2nd shot moments later was a WW on a 630 grain arrow at 35 yards that buried to the fletch when it hit the off shoulder.  Both shots were quartering away very close to the same angle.

Kind of interesting, all you hear about big game is 2 blades, and the two blade failed me.....and the 3 blade did the trick AND on a 100 grain lighter arrow.  Sometimes I think its all just luck of the draw.

         

         

[Steve O]

Ron,

That may be the finest post ever made on TradGang.  Excellent detail and support photos.  Can you do a series fo us of all the North American Game...it would be excellent reference!

[RGK]

Thanks but I don't think I have that kind of time. LOL I will continue this through hopefully a picture of the hunter next to his bison.

[Traditional-Archer]

I'm courious, Why the weed whacker string and not a weight toob. Is there a difference in performance.

[RGK]

No but the string trimmer line is a little more adjustable. With a weight tube, there is no room to add/subtract/tweek. Once the tube is cut to length you can't adjust it. With the trimmer line (4 strands) I can have more weight in the front by making two strands shorter and biasing them to the front of the arrow when I tape them together.I think I might be able to get more weight with the string trimmer line as well. In the end, this might all be crap. I am learning as I go along. I keep an open mind.

 

 

[Steve O]

Well, I hope one of your buddy's goes on an elk hunt    .

[deadpool]

hey rgk!
how much do 4 of those strands weigh per inch once bundled together?