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Author Topic: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial  (Read 6548 times)

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« on: August 06, 2006, 02:23:00 AM »
I have posted a few pics on another site that might be of interest to some here that do not frequent the elk forum.  I hunt with a longbow,  make all of my pack equipment, and raise my own packstock.

  http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg1.jpg  


I have been busy getting ready for another expedition into the high country. I plan to pack in a little over 5 miles and climb over 3500 ft in altitude change. I am taking in a wall tent, wood stove, frozen steaks, clothes, bedding, propane, hunting and fishing gear and camp supplies for 5 people, off and on over 20 days of Colorado elk season. I have pictured some of my pack stock doing what they do best.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2006, 02:25:00 AM »
Try again.

 

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2006, 02:28:00 AM »
Much better.

 

These are Norwegian Fjords. Not too tall, about 14.2-14.3 hands so they are easy to load and gentle as dead pigs. Real nice driving team and they will follow the lead mare around without pigtailing them together when they pack. The brown dun is my saddle horse, equipped with power steering and power brakes. An old team penning horse, 15.3 hands, lots of heart and smart. He has never dumped me in the 9 years I have owned him. These guys are as good of pack horses as I know of, never had a wreck with them in several trips but they are too much work for me in elk camp.  They are going to draw a pass for elk season.  They can keep on eating.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2006, 02:32:00 AM »


The Llamas are going to get the call for duty this trip. This pic should be Bandit. Take a good look at him if you are interested in getting a pack llama. He is tall at the shoulder for a llama. Straight long back, athletic and muscular but not beefy or overweight. Lots of ground clearance for stepping over deadfalls and wading rushing creeks. I raised this llama and he is now just over 4 years old. He packed a light load for me last year and is now ready for full time duty.
 
This should be Bandit and Gateway saddled up and ready for some trail work. They are half brothers born a day apart. Gateway is also a big structually correct llama and a real good packer. They are out of a stud that placed second in his class at the American Royal. He was a sad loss for me when I had to put him down due to meningeal worm.
 


This should be Patrick and Bull. My smallest and largest packers. Bull, the appalouse, is a giant of a llama with testicals as big as baseballs. He was the Grand Champion llama at the Iowa State Fair a few years ago. Patrick is a full brother to Gateway but he is kind of a runt. He is only 3 years old. He packed a case of mountain dew up to camp for me last year. He didn't cost me anything and doesn't eat much and has a lot of heart. He is structurally correct and he doesn't have any quit in him so I will keep him. Bull on the other hand, in spite of his great size (about 425 pounds and so wide he hardly fits in my chute) and strength turns out to be a quitter. A real slacker. He is lazy and does not pack up to his potential. He will pack a light load all day so he makes the cut.
 
These are my senior packers, Andy and Dooley. They are old steady hands, even tempered and know their business. They have been up and down the mountain many times. Good sized, and never quit. Old Dooley, the white llama, is going on 10 years old. I have a couple of young llamas out of him that should make great packers some day.  

Winston and Stuart here. Stuart is another appalouse that was given to me by some people that couldn't take care of him very well. I had been helping them by shearing him, trimming his nails, worming him etc. because they couldn't afford a vet. Mercifully they gave him up and after I worked off about 100 pounds of fat he made a decent packer last year. Winston is a young llama, 3.5 years old, kind of tempermental and has to be at the tail end of the string but he does well as a packer.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2006, 02:41:00 AM »


This should be one of my saddles. An early prototype I made out of 3/4" steel tubing, 3/4"plywood, leather and pony girths. The only thing wrong with this design of saddle is that it weighs more than it needs to. This saddle fits good and has never sored the back of a llama. It does not slip in any direction once it is properly fitted to its wearer. The saddle pads are horse pack pads cut in half.
 

This is what I consider an improved design of saddle with a spring bar made out of 3/8" cold rolled steel and a little angle iron instead of hinged square tubing. It weighs one third less than my first design and it held up just as well on last years trip. It has fewer parts and is easier to make. I make all of my equipment including: halters, picket stakes, lead ropes, saddles,  draft horse and llama stocks, gates, stoves, collapsible tent poles, pack harness(for horses and llamas) etc.
 

This should show the rigging straps that attach the coolers or packs to the saddles. I have used rope to lash things to the saddle but over several miles and banging packs and coolers on trees etc they ropes slip and you end up having to re rig one or two units every 2-3 miles. With these leather straps and buckles you just hang them on and pull the strap tight and buckle it, never comes loose on the trail. You do not need to know how to throw a box hitch, diamond hitch, double diamond or anything else. I do know how throw those hitches for packing horses but llama packing is much simpler.
 
Here is ole Dooley packed up with some coolers ready to go. I use these 28 quart coolers to haul my camp gear and groceries. They are just the right size for a llama to pack and I bought them right. Less than $10.00 a box for coleman coolers on end of season closeout at Wal-mart. Historically I have loaded my llamas with about 75 pounds apiece. With a load like that they can go 5 miles, climbing 3000 ft in a little over 4 hours. They are pretty well spent after a trip like that. One of these coolers will hold about 35 pounds of frozen grub, so 2 coolers and the saddle will peg 75 pounds. My first stove weighed 45 pounds so with a counter weight on the other side Andrew was packing over 95 pounds those trips. I give them a breather for a couple of minutes out of every ten and they keep going for me all the way to camp. You cannot go nonstop with them or they will just give up. I made a new stove, smaller and thinner 22 guage steel that weighs in at 23 pounds. We will make better time this year. I plan to average 45 pounds a llama this year, traveling light and going into higher and steeper country than usual, thus the need for 8 llamas this expedition.
 


Here is Andy with the new light weight stove. I primarily burn wood with this stove but also have a slot cut in the door to accomodate a benzomatic propane torch. The stove will get plenty hot to cook with just with the propane. The stove exhaust in the back gives full use of the stove top for cooking. I rolled up some 22 guage steel to make the exhaust pipe to fit a 4 inch flexible aluminum vent. It works great. The pipe flexes up and down with the movement of the roof/stove jack and never comes off the stove. I have had strong wind lift a stove pipe to come off the stove and fill the tent with smoke which is something you don't want to experience, especially if you are burning some wet pine on a windy and rainy night. The red cooler is filled with propane bottles and some extra rope for hanging groceries in the trees. I use a bungee cord to secure a sleeping bag or eggcrate pad as a top load. They ride real good on top of these saddles that way.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2006, 02:45:00 AM »


Here we are doing a little trail work. I saddle them up and put anywhere from 8-10 llamas in a string and take them to the woods. I have 30 acres of hilly timber with lots of trails and creek crossings to negotiate. They figure out real quick they have to walk single file and if they try to pass to go around they get their face slammed into the next tree. This training is great for when you go bushwacking cross country where there are no trails. I used these guys to pack in bear baits in the Selway Wilderness last year and they went places a horse would never be able to. We had to hold trees and bushes apart to get through thick brush and timber. A good llama knows his stuff and can comprehend what you are trying to get him to do so it is enjoyable to have such a partner working with you in those kinds of conditions.
 
Here we are resting by the dog kennel after a couple of miles of hiking. I have been putting in about 2 miles a day 6 of the past 7 days. It has been unbearably hot so I usually don't pack them up until dark, and even then I just about lost one of my best llamas, Fabio. He was down for three solid days with heat stroke and I thought he was going to die. He is the most overweight of all my boys and it caught up with him. He is up and around now but will stay home this year. Packing through the timber in the dark keeps them on their toes lined out in single file. I only take two people with me at a time which is perfect for my 12.5x12.5 Alaknak tent. Myself and 4 guests over two weeks is about all I can accomodate and still have a good hunt. I am spending the first five days by myself which I enjoy immensely much to my wifes dismay.

This elk hunting is a disease that consumes you and as you can see I have it pretty bad. Outside of work and family my whole world revolves around being ready to pack in to a remote area, any remote area that I want to go to, to hunt elk. I pretty well have all of the bugs worked out and have about as bulletproof system as I can muster. I am looking forward to the day when I can spend Mid August through October in the mountains and it is going to be a while before I can swing it, but that day will come.
I might add that anyone that is considering getting their own llamas feel free to call me. I am not selling any but I have many years of experience and can point you in the right direction or give you my perspective on what you might have planned. I am running out of gas.  Maybe some more pics tomorrow.

Offline Al Kidner

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2006, 03:01:00 AM »
Wow! man o man that looks like a real good trip to be on. I'm sure there are heaps of hands going up when called for hunters!

 Keep on comming with the pics please.

 Regards from Oz, alan
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Offline knife river

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2006, 04:37:00 AM »
Thanks for this thread!  It's my brand-new all-time favorite!  PLEASE keep us posted on your hunt.  How large a truck/trailer do you need for your pack string?
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Offline ber643

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2006, 08:05:00 AM »
Enjoyed every word, picture, and imagagining this thread brought to my mind and eye.
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Offline Osagetree

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2006, 08:43:00 AM »
Thanks for sharing!

I could use one of them aminals to pack in my lock on stands!  :smileystooges:
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Offline Osagetree

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2006, 08:44:00 AM »
Besides they got'a beat a 4-wheeler,,, I hate them contraptions!
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Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2006, 01:58:00 PM »


This is my version of Elkforce I.  It is a twenty foot gooseneck 4-horse slant with a tack room in the rear and a dressing room up front.  I can haul 4 horses or 10 llamas with ease.  I hang hay bags inside and turn the llamas loose so they can feed while we travel.   I have a cot and stove in the dressing quarters and have camped out of this trailer on a few hunting trips.  The dressing room is nice to hold all of the hunting gear so nothing is left in the truckbed to get wet or unsecure.

 

This Dodge diesel provides plenty of pulling power and has been a good truck for me.  I only put about 5000-6000 miles a year on it so it could easily last me another 10 years.  I have some new fenders and a paint job waiting for this truck when elk season is over.
   Fabio and Dude.  Dude is just a year old but he is going to be a big llama some day.  Fabio is still suffering from the heat.

 

This is my main barn.  Nice straight old barn with new siding and roof.  This barn was first listed on the Polk County tax rolls in 1898.  Hopefully it will last another 100 years.  I keep llamas and horses in the basement where it is cool.  I store about 1500 small sqare bales in the upper levels along with tack and grain rooms.
   I am in an endless quest to find better cheaper ways of doing things.  I had a mirafount water fountain that was supposed to be freezeproof.  I don't have enough animals drinking out of it to keep up the water flow so it does freeze up.  I put a toilet tank valve in the bottom of this water tank and a 2 gallon jug for a float.  With an electric tank heater this should keep fresh water year round.  I buried an electric line in conduit under the concrete to the post by the water tank for the tank heater.
 

I have an enormous pile of hay right now.  I like to keep at least 2 years supply on hand in case we run into a drought situation and hay becomes hard to find.  The large round bales are getting so big (some up to 2400 pounds) my 45 HP tractor would not pick them up high enough to clear the top of the bale feeder.  This skid loader handles such loads with ease and has been a fun addition to my barn lot.

 

I have 4 large fans like these 32 inch round fans running round the clock in hot weather.  Llamas do not do well in really hot humid conditions.  The underground basement location and these fans keep them cool.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2006, 03:05:00 PM »


Here Gateway demonstrates the llama stocks.  This llama restraint device is made out of 1" 11guage square tubing.  It is a must have piece of equipment if you are going to do much with llamas.  I use it for worming, vaccinations, antibiotic injections, foot trimming, haircuts, castrations and vet inspections.  I do all of my own vet work except for having a health inspection before any trip.  The vet really appreciated well trained animals and a retraint chute.
 

As a brief aside, I made this draft horse stocks out of 4 inch steel tubing.  It is anchored to 4 ft deep x 12 concrete pilings.  I would hate to have a horse tip over on me.  I do some of my own farrier work and this is good for floating teeth, drawing blood, vaccinations, OB exams etc.  The vet likes this unit also.  Once a horse is chained into here there really isn't much they can do.
 

Every saddle and halter has a name tag on it.  Not so I remember their names but so I get the same equipment on each animal every time.  I dont like to waste time adjusting straps every time we saddle up.  The ropes all have two large swivel bull snaps.  The rope is doubled over as a lead rope or extended single as a picket line.  Each llama carries his own rebar stake attached to his saddle.  A llama will eat just about anything, enjoy and do well.  I do not pack any feed to camp.  I drive the picket stake in with an eastwing axe and the llamas are able to negotiate the picket line without getting tangled up.
 

A highline is good for llamas just like it is for horses.  You don't always find enough trees close by to tie to.  I made these highline keepers out of 3/8" steel and they stay put.  I like to use the bull snaps because I do not trust most people to tie a knot to my satisfaction. Most people can handle a snap.  The bull snaps are probaly overkill but I have never had one fail on me.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2006, 03:18:00 PM »


This little device, a packers scale is most important when you are packing up.  I like to have my loads weigh within a pound on each side.  I also use it as a bow scale.
Here are the pack boxes for 5 llamas.  6 coolers for groceries, 2 coolers for camp stuff like lanterns, cookpans, water filters etc. and one cooler for propane.
 

When you have this much tack to keep track of you need to stay organized.  This rack holds a dozen saddles, and multiple halters, lead ropes, pack harness, pack pads etc.  Sorry for the mess in my shop, I wasn't anticipating visitors.

 

Bandit is loaded up with an Alaknak tent.  This used to be a half load but since I cant make it any smaller and want to lighten the loads some lucky llama is going to have less than 40 pounds to carry this year.
 

Gateway is sporting a couple of green army duffle bags lashed to his saddle with a pair of tiedown straps.  His packs contain the tent fly, a pair of eastwing axes, a pair of bowsaws, the stove pipe, tent poles and stakes and some tarps.  I use army duffle bags for clothing as well.  Each hunter gets one bag not to exceed 25 pounds of clothes and personal effects.

I hope you have been entertained by this tour of my operation.  I am ready to pull out for a trip right now.  I do not usually take any pictures because after a while the scenery all looks the same and pictures do not do the landscape any justice.  Digital cameras now make it easier and I will try to capture some pictures of my next trip.

Offline Steve H.

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2006, 03:33:00 PM »
Yowza.

LIGHTENED the load to a 23# stove!  Thats around half my total weight for many week plus trips that I do!

One of them beast could do wonderfully for me as I rarely do a trip that needs that amount of gear.  We call those "Disco Hunts" where you have THAT much stuff and luxury!  In those cases I just stay in a hotel.

Offline Missouri Sherpa

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2006, 03:52:00 PM »
There are no hotels 5 miles deep into the wilderness at 11000 ft.  I like to set up a base camp about 5 miles in from the trailhead and hunt out a 4-5 mile radius from camp.  I can cover a lot of ground and very rarely see anyone.  I prefer to eat ribeyes and frozen vegetables instead of a mountain house meal.   I have been on a couple of outfitted hunts and I liked it.  I have taken measures to be able to do it better and for less  by myself whenever I can.  I have family and friends that would not be able to go if I didn't take them.  Don't get the idea that I am that generous because I get something out of it.  My wife cannot stand it when I do these trips solo and it gives her peace of mind to know that someone will be with me when I disappear to the mountains for 10 days at a time.  I also get help sharing gas expenses, sawing wood, filtering water, making camp and looking after the llamas.

Offline Steve H.

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2006, 11:16:00 PM »
I was joking on the hotel part.

I am about to do a ten day solo interior sheep hunt.  Sure would like to stuff a lama in the supercub to carry my Mountain House!

Offline Whip

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2006, 11:19:00 PM »
A friend and I rented llamas one year for a mule deer hunt in Nevada.  It was a great trip and I really enjoyed using the animals.  We were able to take a very nice camp about 7 miles up the mountain.  Unfortunately, we didn't get to use them to pack out meat like we had planned, but it sure was a cool hunt.  
Thanks for sharing a fantastic pictorial about your passion.
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Offline Gopherhunter

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2006, 10:03:00 AM »
I loved this thread and would go with you anytime.  good luck and good hunting.

btw do you have a bow rack on one?  lol
I only hunt critters that walk,crawl,slither,fly or swim.  I guess you could say I'm picky.

Offline knife river

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Re: Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2006, 10:45:00 AM »
"Sorry for the mess in my shop, I wasn't anticipating visitors."

You've got a big operation going there and everything looks very well squared away.  Very impressive.  Have a great hunt!  
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