Packing in to elk camp, Llama pictorial

[Talondale]

I get the impression you would be a hard man to keep up with.  When do you sleep?  That's one nice full time operation there.  Do you farm full time?

[Missouri Sherpa]

I am only a hobby farmer.  There will be plenty of time to sleep when the dirt nap calls for you, otherwise I do stay pretty busy.  I am a Physician, Nuclear Medicine Specialist at my day job.  You can take the boy off of the farm but you can't take the farm out of the boy.  Thanks for the kind word.

[Marty B]

whats the name of the elk forum you refrenced?

[Missouri Sherpa]

That would be the Bowsite, elk forum.

[Jeff Holchin]

John, thanks for the GREAT info, for those of us considering llamas for backcountry hunting.  I'd love to share a camp with a serious llama owner like you, just to see how everything works, before making the commitment to llamas.  Since we can't share a camp with you this fall, the next best thing would be plenty of photos when you return from your adventure.  I can't wait!

[Missouri Sherpa]

Jeff,

Under penalty of death, or at least a severe beating, members of the circle of trust are obligated to protect the secret location of all hunting areas we are known to frequent.  I am afraid the penalty of taking anyone new and therefore by default disclosing said locations, prevents me from sharing elk camp with you or anyone else, as much as I might want to.     I would extend an invitation to any of you to visit if you are interested in learning more about the care and handling of llamas, sources and selection of decent pack llama prospects and making your own pack equiment, restraint chute etc.

[razorsharptokill]

That is an amazing set up!

[Redfeathers]

AWESOME!!!

[Jeff Holchin]

Sounds good, you may be getting a visitor soon.  I'm headed through Des Moines this fall, on the way home from my own backcountry adventure........

[Panzer]

You ROCK

[Arrow4Christ]

Hey, awesome pics!! I also use llamas to pack into wilderness areas...they work great!

[Tom Leemans]

LOL, Hey go over to the Llama and grab me a beer!

[Firstarrow]

Thanks, Great pictorial, Descriptions etc.

Best of luck in the west this year.

[Chad Edgar]

Tom, I had to read it twice.  But I laughes so hard the second time I about lost my job!!!!  

Missou Sherp, thanks much!

[Ray Hammond]

I have a great deal of admiration for you and your 1. organizational skills 2.talents in many different disciplines  3. skill with handling critters  4. your beautiful farm

Where do you find the time for all this though? Between practicing my bow, earning a living, spending a little time with family, church, and scouting whitetails, I have little time left for sleep.

 how on earth do you get time to do all that prep work??? I am envious.

[Missouri Sherpa]

Ray,

I keep busy year round.  I do not come in to the house until it is too dark to see and I have pretty much sworn off watching any television.  I do all of my computer surfing and topozone scouting on line at work.   I have to shut down the machine shop at 10:00pm so my neighbors don't complain about the noise from the hammering and grinding.  I don't play golf, go fishing, socialize with normal non-hunting people, or allow anyone or anything that is not a priority, intrusion into my schedule.  I make two written lists every night before I go to bed.  One list is what I plan to achieve the next day and the other list of projects planned over the next weeks to months.  I work horses and llamas beginning in May as soon as the morel mushroom crop is in.  From May through November it is preparations for hunting(working llamas or horses, shooting longbows, getting and keeping equipment ready)  or actual hunting trips.  From November after the whitetail rut through mid-May it is maintenence and shop time when I fabricate and repair pack equipment, farm equipment, fences, new barn roofs etc.  In the winter I refletch or make up 5-6 dozen carbon arrows which will just about last me through deer season and work on making knives, leather crafts etc.  I have to make time to mow the yard and I put in a big garden but with proper equipment that doesn't take long.  I have an indoor shooting range in my basement where I shoot my bow a little, just about every day all winter long.  Several years ago I stopped bending wrenches and doing most of my mechanic work and oil changes because I can pay someone to do that so I can do something else.  My wife is in charge of rotating vehicles through the shop for service.  When I have to go to a meeting or take the family on vacation we fly because it saves time and at the price of gas today flying is not much more expensive.  I think flying is cheap when I consider the value of my time spent staring through a windshield.  I have only been to see any of my inlaws twice (Christmas visits) over the past ten years.  They don't interest me that much and if they really want to see me they know where I live.  You have to prioritize.
  My family has matured somewhat.  I have two girls in high school that have discovered boys and don't have as much time or need for Dad as they used too, a son that is a Senior in College who is going elk hunting with me in three weeks and a Daughter in her third year of medical school that has precious little free time for the next few years.  For years I worked over 100 hours a week, so my wife and family are accustomed to my schedule of not hanging around the house much. These days I work about 50 hours a week including drive time, sleep about 50 hours a week, so that leaves 68 hours a week to be productive.  I take 10 weeks of vacation a year which gives me time for family vacation, 4-5 weeks of hunting trips and some additional farm time.  I have been at this, at this pace for 12 years so it doesn't just happen overnight.  Before I had the farm I used to make selfbows and I have a pile of bamboo slats, osage, hickory, and mulberry staves waiting for me, but I do not have the time to get back to it.  Last year I was general contractor for the new home I built and that nearly killed me being on site two to three times a day for 9 months but I was still able to keep up with the farm and two trips to Canada, hunts for bear, mule deer, antelope, elk, and whitetail deer.  I just sleep less when I have to.
You can do it.  If you commit your mind, time and resources there isn't much you can't accomplish in this country.

[Shakes.602]

WOW  ...........Is All I can Say!!      

[Nate Steen .]

Sherpa,

I have read with interest your posts.  I am acquiring llamas this next weekend for the first time.  I really appreciate your photos and I will try to copy the gear if you don't mind.  I also make my horse gear, etc and am handy with leathe and tools,  so I'm sure I can get the outfit ready.  I live in desert Idaho,  and don't have any brushy trails to excercise the animals,  but how much training/excercise do they need to be ready to hunt?  Also,  these llamas are a bit older, I think around 10 years and haven't been packed before.  What's the training curve?

thanks,  Nate.

[John3]

This may have been the "coolest" thread I've read on the gang...  Although it did make me feel lazy.. I thought I stayed busy... LOL

GREAT Post !!!

[Missouri Sherpa]

Here you can put a face with the name.  This was taken about a month ago at Hoover Dam.  Boy what a waste of real estate Las Vegas area is.  This is me and my youngest daughter on a family vacation (yes I do go on family trips).  

Sadly I have lost most of my hair,am nearly 50 years old and 250 pounds but I still get around pretty good for a fat crippled old man.  I have to use pack animals to get me into the high country.  

Nate,
 
I had one older llama, 12 years old, a high dollar stud llama that turned up sterile and was of no use as a breeder.  He originally sold for 15,000.00 and was a real looker.  I gelded him to put him into the right frame of mind and he was packing like a champ in just a few days.  That llama, Mac was his name, ended up going to a bowhunter in Arkansas.  He was a good one.

 Most of my llamas are raised by me or purchased when they are two years old.  I like to get big stout 4-H project llamas that are well broke to lead and  have been handled by kids a lot.  They are easy to train. Male llamas are not allowed in the 4-H program after age of 2 so they end up getting rid of them.  Intact males can be aggressive and too much for a kid to handle sometimes.  If they are already broke to lead half the battle is won.  The next step is to get a saddle on them and take them for a long walk until they get used to it.  Then I introduce them to a load.  I like to use cinder blocks, or 2 gallon jugs full of sand.  4 jugs or 2 cinderblocks will weigh about 70-80 pounds.  They might pitch and buck a little but after loading them  a few times they will be okay. I like to take them in the woods so they can bang into trees and get used to how wide their packs are.  They will learn to avoid getting to close after a few trips.  If you have easy trainers and stay with it you can have them pretty well broke in a week or less.  The important thing is to work with them.  Keep handling them and they will be easier to work with.  I do a total body shearing every spring to help keep them cool and to let them know that I can run those scissors all over them and that I am not going to hurt them.  What you are doing is establishing and building trust.  If they trust you, they will follow you just about anywhere.  If they dont trust you they will lock their legs and you wont be able to budge them.  A word of caution on getting older llamas.  A llama can be a good packer until he is 15-20 years old if he stays sound and you don't work him hard or often.  Llamas can get swaybacked when they get old and are unfit to pack.  Their main weakpoint is their pasterns.  If those suspensory ligaments give out in the feet, your llama is not going to pack anymore.  I had a female that was going swaybacked and down in her pasterns when she was 12 years old.  Look them over pretty carefully if they have some age on them.  Most people will tell you a llama is not physically mature to pack until he is 3-4 years old.  I start mine at 2 and a half with a light load like some sleeping bags or a case of pop. At three and a half to 4 years they have a year of experience and are physically mature to pack full time, and that would apply to commercial packers.  Occaisional infrequent use, family packers might be able to pack more than I do at that age but I do not want to risk damaging those back ligaments or pasterns only to have them give out prematurely.  As far as how much excercise do they need?  Thats up to you depending on how hard you are going to have to push them to get where you want to go.  I like to go high and camp around 10-11,000 ft. and go in 4-5 miles from the trailhead.  To be able to get there in 4 hours I like to put in 2-3 miles a night three times a week loaded with 80 pounds on their saddles.  I try to do this for at least a month before I leave.  By then they are really used to being handled and with the hot humid conditions we have here in Iowa they cool mountain air trip is not too bad for them.  I give them a breather for 2 minutes out of every ten.  If they know the routine that they are going to get to rest and munch on some brush every few minutes they will accept that pace.  My first trip with llamas I hauled a$$ up the mountain as fast as I could and they completely gave out after a mile and a half and a 2000 ft climb.  They laid down and refused to go any further.  I gave up on llamas that trip and did not try to use them again for 2 years.  By then I had if figured out better how to pack, make a good saddle, not overload, and pace them.  Makes a world of difference in what you can get out of them.