Thanks all...and nice to hear you're out with your kids Brian. For those wanting to know, both selfbows were made by myself. Kory's is an unbacked osage, 58 inches nock to nock with moosehorn tip overlays, and pulls an honest 70 lbs. He took an interest last year with the selfbows, so has been shooting that one since last season, when he took a couple does with it. My bow is osage, with a pair of bull snake skins that I got from Ralph Renfro at MOJAM a couple years back....pulls 62ish and is 62 inches nock to nock, with sheephorn overlays.