Oh, yeah, almost forgot...shot him with a 65 lb Ancient Spirits Thunderhawk and big Snuffers (what else is there???) total arrow weight 680 grains. I was surprised how hard the bull was, I shot to the off ribs with the first arrow and to the off shoulder with the 2nd, but no exit. With my limited experience this animal was harder to shoot through than a bull moose, although smaller. Maybe its the hair.
R