Worst Idea Ever...HUNTING ALERT!!! READ & EMAIL!

[vermonster13]

You can e-mail me through this site as can anyone who wants more info. I saw a post on another site of a conversation a fellow had with Farbman today.

Farbman said that they have made some marketing mistakes and that none of the big money sponsors would get involved if there was killing in the show. sounds a bit off to me. What do you folks think?

Does anyone know the sponsors of any of the other Outdoor Channel shows and such? I don't get it or the mens channel here.

[vermonster13]

Another little tidbit from that conversation. Farbman said that 71% of Ford F150 owners hunt. How do you do that sort of market research and not ask the actual hunters what they would think of this thing? I'll tell you how, it's all about the money, the more these people say the clearer that gets.

[Ray Hammond]

Remember me asking if we should contact Bud, Miller, Anheuser, Ford, GMC, GM, etc???

If he knows that about Ford owners it sounds like he had the same idea I did.

We need to get after them.  We also should contact the folks who sponsor The Management Advantage, since Chuck Sykes has a spiritual connection with David Farbman.

[Ray Hammond]

Fellows,
Chuck Sykes is using his position as a biologist to explain to all of us how we don't understand how carefully they have thought out this whole process at Worldhunt and that the difficulty is US, rather than Farbman...and if we would just open up our minds a little it would be GREEEAT for hunting.

See his statement of support -


To Whom It May Concern:
I am Chuck Sykes and many of you know me through my show, The Management Advantage. I was one of the first people in this country to focus shows in and around education and herd management. I have been involved with WorldHunt since nearly its inception.As you know, I would not involve myself in something that I did not feel would  be great for the industry. We are lacking in recruitment and our retention needs some assistance. Worldhunt brings "out of the box" very well thought-through strategies to enhance these efforts we are all attempting for hunting.

I can tell you that I hunted with, and gotten to know, David Farbman on a personal- and spiritual level- and I can tell you he is without doubt one of the most passionate, driven, and ambitious hunters I have come across.

(at this point he goes on to tell us that we are all wrong about deer mortality with the medicines that will be used and how wonderful the techniques are that will be used and how we don't need to worry they have it under control- you can go to the worldhunt.com website to read this part if you are interested)

Then he goes on-

I think if we can all open our minds a bit we can do something truly special for hunting. Change is difficult.But sometimes it is the best option.David Farbman and a group of strong supporters are passionately dedicated to empowering the hunting INDUSTRY. Thank you for hearing some factual evidence..more will come soon.

Chuck Sykes

Well, here is what I wrote to Chuck.

Mr. Sykes,
 
I have some difficulty with you telling the hunting community that what David Farbman is attempting to do with the WHA is going to recruit new hunters and retain hunters- it is disingenuous, and could be seen by some as purposefully misleading.
 
You know what it will draw is video game players, and spawn a new industry of shooting deer with drugs behind high fences on golf course - type communities that will eventually have condos, restaurants and shopping for the spouses of participants. Tranking deer with darts for the purpose of taking a photo with the animal is NOT hunting.
 
You also know that ACCESS is the single greatest factor related to why hunter numbers are not increasing. The only access this program provides is access to Farbman's and others' special deer pens in specific states where deer are considered livestock. After all, real estate development IS Farbman's business, isn't it? Great White hunter wannabe's will flock from the city to get their picture snapped with Buckie, the monster genetically mutated buck of the 21st century.  And its hardly access that most American hunters can afford, anyway.
 
Any time you administer drugs to any animal you are putting it's life at risk, even if the percentages are miniscule. Doing so in order to win girls, cars, homes, and money will be seen by the public as exploitation of living beings. And believe me, when the media gets through with this bastardization of hunting that is what the public will see it as. In study after study,  the public has consistently shown they respect hunters who take their kill home to feed their families, but that trophy hunting is wrong,they do not care for it, nor do they respect us when we hunt for that reason.
 
If ONE DEER DIES as a result of this activity, what happens then? You, nor anyone else can guarantee this will not happen.  And if Farbman is right, what happens when folks begin cheering for the bucks, rather than the hunters? You cannot "explain away" the lack of "face time" for a buck when its dead...you've got to tell the truth. How's that going to play? What happens when a buck gets so big, and some powerful guy calls up the "pen" and offers 250K to shoot that deer for real? You think they are going to turn that down? How do you explain the disappearance of Buckie?
 
The Anti's, and their agent, the country's left wing media will cause the public to SEE this activity as the "face" of hunting if it occurs, and the 80% of our population who do not hunt and are against hunting will not respect this activity when they view it on TV and will vote AGAINST hunter's rights when they are called upon to do so in a state or national ballot.
 
I always try to "follow the money" when I see things like this crop up in hunting, politics, or business. I wonder what stake those supporting this activity have in its success?  When so many are against it, there's got to be a reason, and its almost universally financial, that someone would find it possible to support it.
 
I respectfully ask you to reconsider your support of this activity for the good of the sport we all love.
 
Ray Hammond
President, Suburban Whitetail Management of North Georgia, Inc
Member- North American Bowhunting Council
Vice Chairman- Ga Chapter-National Bowhunter Education Foundation
Georgia Deer Management Committee- Member
Life Member, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Life Member, Professional Bowhunters Society
Life Member/Founding Member-Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia, Inc

Since Mr. Sykes has chosen to enter the fray on behalf of David Farbman I believe it is legitimate for us to ask HIS show's sponsors if they are aware he is endorsing Farbman's activities?

We certainly aren't "going after" Chuck Sykes, but I think it would be a concern for companies that would want to know the position the people they are sponsoring are taking on this issue so they can remain informed and aware before something happens, don't you? Keep it civil, and business- like in your communications...just business..keeping them informed as a consumer you are happy/unhappy with their Mr Syke's message on the website of Worldhunt- here are the sponsors..

Mossy Oak camo

Mossy Oak Bio Logic

Quality Deer Management Association

Leaf River Products

BASF

Kershaw Knives

Polaris

Mega Outdoor Property

Do All Outdoors

The Edge Outdoors

Brush Clearing Services, LLC

Great Day Inc.

Me Opta

[joel smith]

the Mega Outdoor Property is certainly an interesting one.......  :eek:  Wonder what kind of business they're in ?  

[vermonster13]

Here you go. But he's in it for the future of hunting.

 http://www.megaoutdoorproperty.com/home.html

[REDBISON]

CALLED G-5 AND PUT MY TWO CENTS IN.... WHAT EVER THATS WORTH. THEY HAVE BACK OUT AS SPONSORS ON THE WORLDHUNT STUPIEDO'S...I HOPE ALL OTHER SPONSORS WILL SEE HOW THIS WILL POSSIBLY HURT THEM....

[vermonster13]

All of the known sponsors have pulled out except Polaris who is on the site but has never been listed as an official sponsor.

I did receive an e-mail from the NRA today saying they are opposed to the WHA though.

[Ray Hammond]

I just received this in an email-


To my knowledge, GWF is the first state NWF affiliate to stand opposed to the WHA and the first GA organization to express their opposition.  Please share this good news with other valiant riders!
 
 
 
The Georgia Wildlife Federation is the largest and oldest hunter/angler based conservation organization in Georgia.  Since 1936, we have supported, defended and upheld high ethical standards of hunting and professional wildlife management in Georgia.  The promotion of hunting as a “league” where fans “root for the buck” and WHA awards tournament prize money, as in competitive sports, is completely contrary to the sturdy pursuit of the hunt, in which all true ethical hunters understand the ultimate reality and take seriously the harvest of their quarry.  Promoting “shoot and release” has been described by many Georgia hunters as humorous, ridiculous and a dangerous path to take.  The unintended consequences of this commercial pursuit are not only varied and damaging to the reputation of hunters as sportsmen, it is clear such intentions are driven by financial gain at the expense of true fair chase hunters.  Creating a competition “league” for entertainment and advertising value exploits wildlife as a simple commercial commodity and is contrary to our traditional American values for sport hunting.

 

Our opinion is that tranquilizer darts should be used strictly for scientific research by trained wildlife biologists and wildlife management professionals.  The invention and perfection of the tranquilizer dart gun occurred in Georgia and has since been used by wildlife professionals world wide.   It is not a tool of “sport”!  Concerns for the use of controlled substances, dosage administration, lack of scientific knowledge of biologic and secondary non-game wildlife impacts and legal issues must be considered.

 

We join the ranks of other businesses and organizations opposing this endeavor in an effort to promote, protect and sustain the tried and true heritage and tradition of hunting in America for future generations.

[Ray Hammond]

you're going to love this- the thing made it to Newsweek magazine...

see the link

 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13529124/site/newsweek

[vermonster13]

Hey folks, I know it is getting old to more than a few of you, but this is far from over. farbman has contacted at least one hunter I know of directly and this guy is giving him the time of day! The fellow is still opposed to the WHA as it is, but he is not seeing Farbman as a bad guy anymore. These kind of statements are what begin to lead to acceptance or willingness to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. We can't have this show airing period, there is huge downside for us. We need to get ourselves motivated again and jump on this with both feet.

The WHA is in a damage control and holding position right now, we can't allow them to keep things together. Sponsors on the list Ray just posted need to be contacted, we need to make these guys as uncomfortable as possible.

Contacting your state veterinary boards is the key to preventing them from doing this in each state. The FDA has said that they leave enforcement of this to those folks, so let's put those folks to work. We need to start as many fires as we can if we want to burn this thing to the ground.

Each of us needs to decide if we're in this for the long haul. We have some victories, but this war is far from over folks. Are you with us?

[Ray Hammond]

My post regarding this is on page 42..about THE MANAGEMENT ADVANTAGE tv show - the sponsors Vermonster is talking about are below.

Since Mr. Sykes has chosen to enter the fray on behalf of David Farbman I believe it is legitimate for us to ask HIS show's sponsors if they are aware he is endorsing Farbman's activities?

We certainly aren't "going after" Chuck Sykes, but I think it would be a concern for companies that would want to know the position the people they are sponsoring are taking on this issue so they can remain informed and aware before something happens, don't you? Keep it civil, and business- like in your communications...just business..keeping them informed as a consumer you are happy/unhappy with their Mr Syke's message on the website of Worldhunt- here are the sponsors..

Mossy Oak camo

Mossy Oak Bio Logic

Quality Deer Management Association

Leaf River Products

BASF

Kershaw Knives

Polaris

Mega Outdoor Property

Do All Outdoors

The Edge Outdoors

Brush Clearing Services, LLC

Great Day Inc.

Me Opta

[Ted A. Young]

"North American Bowhunting Coalition, Pope & Young, The Bowsite, Ohio Division of Wildlife, Ohio Bowhunters Association all rejects the "hunting Contest" being proposed by the World Hunt Association. Letters have been sent to each of these and all responses are the same! Say No To The World Hunt Competition!  Ohio Division of Wildlife states this will not come to Ohio! Wheels are turning"

Ohio folks are fighting the good fight!

[vermonster13]

Position statements are great. We need the DNRs or other state angencies to publicly say that such an event would be illegal in each state. The WHA really could care less about what hunters and our organizations say. We're not the target market, that's why they are pursueing this whole non-lethal thing.

Personally I cringe at the thought of hunting fantasy leagues and betting odds in Vegas on these "hunting events" but that's where NASCAR is at and these guys want to turn hunting into the new Nascar.

[vermonster13]

Here is a letter Ray Hammond has written. I would like to see us all send this to the sponsors listed above.

Dear (sponsor name here),

 
 www.worldhunt.com  is the website of a group planning on a "contest" for prizes/money to the tune of $600,000 where deer will be placed in a pen and shot with tranquilizer darts by a group of a half dozen or so "hunters" who will have their photos taken with the deer, the deer's rack scored, and based on that they will be awarded prizes.  I am writing to you because Chuck Sykes, whose TV show you sponsor- THE MANAGEMENT ADVANTAGE- has come out in support of this activity.
 
You may click on the above link and it will take you to the official website so you can go through Mr. Syke's "open letter" describing how great this "hunt" will be for the hunting INDUSTRY and I guess his implication is it will be good for HUNTING as well. I wanted to bring his position to your attention, and I hope that YOU share my concern that this activity is NOT in the best interest of our sport.  Many share my concern- in fact, the list of organizations and people against this event taking place is quite impressive- here are some of them-
 
 
Pope & young
Safari Club International
Boone & Crockett
NFAA
USSA
NSSF
NRA
Cabelas
Bass Pro Shops
Matthews
ROSS
Newberry
Merlin USA
Martin Archery
Eastman Outfitters
G5 Outdoors
Xtreme Scents
Muzzy
Pinwheel Products
Outdoors Life
New York Post
Detroit Free Press
Georgia Wildlife Federation
 
I have written Mr. Sykes a letter, a copy of which is below, but to date I have received no response.  I would appreciate learning of your position with respect to this activity if you would not mind informing me. Thank you for your time

Sincerely,


Mr. Sykes,

I have some difficulty with you telling the hunting community that what David Farbman is attempting to do with the WHA is going to recruit new hunters and retain hunters- it is disingenuous, and could be seen by some as purposefully misleading.

You know what it will draw is video game players, and spawn a new industry of shooting deer with drugs behind high fences on golf course - type communities that will eventually have condos, restaurants and shopping for the spouses of participants. Tranking deer with darts for the purpose of taking a photo with the animal is NOT hunting.

You also know that ACCESS is the single greatest factor related to why hunter numbers are not increasing. The only access this program provides is access to Farbman's and others' special deer pens in specific states where deer are considered livestock. After all, real estate development IS Farbman's business, isn't it? Great White hunter wannabe's will flock from the city to get their picture snapped with Buckie, the monster genetically mutated buck of the 21st century. And its hardly access that most American hunters can afford, anyway.

Any time you administer drugs to any animal you are putting it's life at risk, even if the percentages are miniscule. Doing so in order to win girls, cars, homes, and money will be seen by the public as exploitation of living beings. And believe me, when the media gets through with this bastardization of hunting that is what the public will see it as. In study after study, the public has consistently shown they respect hunters who take their kill home to feed their families, but that trophy hunting is wrong,they do not care for it, nor do they respect us when we hunt for that reason.

If ONE DEER DIES as a result of this activity, what happens then? You, nor anyone else can guarantee this will not happen. And if Farbman is right, what happens when folks begin cheering for the bucks, rather than the hunters? You cannot "explain away" the lack of "face time" for a buck when its dead...you've got to tell the truth. How's that going to play? What happens when a buck gets so big, and some powerful guy calls up the "pen" and offers 250K to shoot that deer for real? You think they are going to turn that down? How do you explain the disappearance of Buckie?

The Anti's, and their agent, the country's left wing media will cause the public to SEE this activity as the "face" of hunting if it occurs, and the 80% of our population who do not hunt and are against hunting will not respect this activity when they view it on TV and will vote AGAINST hunter's rights when they are called upon to do so in a state or national ballot.

I always try to "follow the money" when I see things like this crop up in hunting, politics, or business. I wonder what stake those supporting this activity have in its success? When so many are against it, there's got to be a reason, and its almost universally financial, that someone would find it possible to support it.

I respectfully ask you to reconsider your support of this activity for the good of the sport we all love.

[Dave Lay]

vermonster, I sent ya a email, composed a letter to sponsors but like a proof read.. thanks Dave

[vermonster13]

I just e-mailed you a revision Dave. Let me know if it will work for you.

I am hoping we will have a mass mailing up for everyone to use soon like we had for the first set of sponsors.

[vermonster13]

Sirs,

     It has come to my attention that you are a sponsor of Chuck Sykes TV show, The Management Advantage.

    If you are not aware, Mr. Sykes has been involved with the World Hunt Association since its inception. World hunt, as you probably know by now, is an attempt to take hunting as we know it currently and create a televised circus atmosphere where the animals are shot with a tranquilizer dart within an enclosed pen. All for the glory, cash and prizes, much like a bass tournament or a NASCAR points race. Shooting animals with a dart within an enclosure is not hunting, nor is hunting  a catch and release endeavor, where some “pro hunter” represents this as the future of hunting. Hopefully the animal recovers, but it will be only to be darted again at a later date.

        This is not hunting as my father taught me or as I teach students in Bowhunter Education classes. I will not stand to see it turned into a game of some sort for the glory of a few so called “hunters”. Is this how we want the 80% non hunting public to view us as hunters?  Do you know what kind of damage that will do to our hunting image??            Please consider carefully the ramifications of this activity. I and many like me will nolonger purchase any product by a company involved with this type of activity. The dangers this presents to hunting and the fuel it will provide anti-hunters is just to damaging to hunting to be supported.

Sincerely,

[Dave Lay]

Thanks, I appreciate the refinement..  Dave

[vermonster13]

Some points to consider when writing letters to these sponsors. Don't make this a high fence issue if at all possible, many of these companies are already involved with those places and it will only close there minds if you assault high fence. Don't focus to much on harm done to animals, to many ways that can be taken here. The main problems we need to address at this time is calling a non-lethal activity that uses controlled substances hunting and the fuel this will give to anti-hunters. The image that hunting is all about trophies and doesn't need to involve killing is not representative of our values and should not be represented to the non-hunting public this way. If we broaden the issue to much, we can cause divisions and comparisons we don't need right now.