This will make you sick...

[DTS]

Texasrecurve, I spoke with a Gamewarden about the high fence trend and he was pretty much for it.  He said it brought a lot of $$ to the agency.  In Texas he can still go into any high fenced area to check hunters and enforce any regulations on the land owner.  He said he thought 99% of these operations were well run.  Does anyone know if the guy from Brooks and Dunn had any remorse?  Happy hunting and God bless.  DT

[jindydiver]

From here
 http://cgi.jconline.com/cgi-bin/resend/printPage.pl?storypath=/lafayettejc/columns/200501100local_sports1105333358.shtml

 

In case you have been under a rock for the last year, Bellar and his farm manager, Hinds Tom Jones, were arrested in 2004 by federal authorities on multiple counts of game violations at "Bellar's Place," a high-fence deer hunting operation near Peru. At this writing, Bellar is having his day in court.
The reason we bring this item back to the forefront is because hunters across the state should understand what Bellar and his friends think is acceptable and normal in such operations as they pursue legislation to help these types of "farms." The more this situation continues the more I believe it is the single most important issue currently facing Hoosier hunters and outdoors enthusiasts.
The trial has featured testimony from country music superstar Ronnie Dunn of the duo Brooks and Dunn. The singer told jurors that he and his son went to the farm and shot two deer despite never purchasing an Indiana hunting license.
Upon cross-examination by Bellar's lawyers, Dunn was asked if he was aware that he had committed illegal acts during the "hunt" and inquired if he were receiving immunity for his testimony.
Dunn said he was told the farm was a private facility and required no state licenses. He also said he had received no assurances of immunity.
Fox Sports Net South TV host Joey Mines told the jury about filming a promotional video for deer bait at Bellar's Place. Mines said Jones later called him and asked that the video not be used because Bellar was concerned about the baiting seen on the tape.
The episode did later air.
One of Bellar's attorneys asked Mines if he has investigated the possibility that it was illegal to hunt with bait in Indiana. The TV host admitted that he had not.
An undercover DNR officer testified about a hunt in which he took part during the investigation. For $12,500 the officer was allowed to hunt two bucks that were pre-identified from a videotape catalog of deer on the farm. The deer were placed inside a six-acre pen for the "hunt."
Another witness, Tennessee homebuilder Greg Bridgers, told the 15-member jury that he paid $3,000 to hunt at Bellar's Place. Bridgers told the jury that during the visit he observed an obviously ill buck lying in a small fenced area. After Bridgers inquired about the price for the buck, Jones spoke to Bellar. Bellar said through Jones that Bridgers could shoot the deer for an additional $15,000.
Bridger tried to negotiate a lower price but eventually agreed to pay the $15,000. Accompanied by Jones and a video camera operator, Bridger shot the deer.
"(Jones) had to literally push the deer to get it up off the ground," Bridgers said, according to a story in the Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette. "That's how sick the deer was."
After the deer was shot the men re-enacted the scene to make it appear "as if it was a real hunt out in the wild."
Do I need to continue?
By the way, the legal strategy being used here appears to be the old "discredit the prosecution witnesses" tactic. That might work with your run-of-the-mill drug dealer testifying against a former buddy but when an enormously popular singer says that he was told he didn't need a license, the jury is going to sit up and listen.
Aside from the small but vocal minority who doesn't see anything wrong with this type of "business," one thing is clear: the affairs at Bellar's Place should infuriate any person who even remotely considers themselves an ethical hunter.
Regardless of which side of the debate you find yourself, it is hard for anyone to justify Bellar's methods of operation. While some people believe current state laws unfair to deer farmers, there is no justification for simply ignoring rules with which you do not agree.
If the pro-canned hunt folks are looking for a spokesman, I'd suggest they find another point man because I believe Bellar is going to be busy for the next 3-5 years.

From here
 http://www.fws.gov/arsnew/regmap.cfm?arskey=14636
 

Russell G. Bellar, owner of Bellar's Place, Inc., a 1,200 acre deer farm near Peru, Ind., pleaded guilty in federal court in South Bend, Indiana, to two felony violations of the Lacey Act, including conspiracy, and one felony violation of a federal food and drug law, on Jan. 12. As part of the plea agreement, Bellar will pay a $5,000 fine, $120,000 restitution for investigative costs, and a $450,000 payment in lieu of the forfeiture of assets listed in the 38-count indictment. Bellar has also agreed to assist the government in its on-going investigation. Bellar may also face a prison sentence of up to two years. Sentencing for possible prison time will not take place until this spring.
Bellar, 57, and farm manager Hinds Thomas Jones, 36, were charged July 15, 2004, with 38 counts of illegally selling and transporting wildlife across state boundaries; facilitating the illegal killing and transportation of wildlife; knowingly providing false information to federal agents; and, illegally introducing chemicals into food-producing wildlife for interstate transfer. Jones pleaded guilty January 3 to conspiracy to violating the Lacey Act, a federal wildlife protection law.
Bellar pleaded guilty to three of the charges today, a day after the government had rested its case and before a jury began its deliberations. More than 50 witnesses testified against Bellar during the seven-day trial, including personalities Jimmy Houston, host of the television show ?Jimmy Houston Outdoors,? country musician Ronnie Dunn and Fox Sports Net South television host Joey Mines.
Evidence presented during the trial established Bellar conducted at least 51 illegal deer hunts on his property since January 2001. Bellar's customers -- many of whom were from outside Indiana, were unlicensed, used illegal weapons or bait -- paid between $4,000 and $20,000 to select and shoot a white-tailed buck in the enclosed preserve. The deer were often drugged prior to being placed into small pens where they were killed. Once killed, the deer's antlers, hides and drug-contaminated meat were illegally transported, often across state boundaries. Although Bellar's Place, Inc., was licensed by the State of Indiana as a game breeding facility, the license did not allow the sale of deer for hunting. To sell a specific deer for hunting is illegal in Indiana. Interstate transportation of wildlife-- including hides or parts--obtained in violation of state law violates the Lacey Act. The practice of killing animals within an enclosed space for the purpose of obtaining a trophy is known as ?canned hunting.? Currently, there are no federal laws prohibiting canned hunts in the United States.
Bellar's guilty plea is the result of a joint investigation into illegal deer hunting by special agents of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and law enforcement agents of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration ? Office of Criminal Investigations also assisted the investigation. The Northern District of Indiana U.S. Attorney's Office, represented by Assistant U.S. Attorney Donald J. Schmid, presented the case in federal court.

[waknstak IL]

Absolutely appalling. I'm very dissapointed too see Jimmy Houston involved. I always thought of him as being o.k.  Thanks for bringing this to light. Someone needs to kick their........

[EDW]

Sounds like we're all on the same page. I hate these places. The industry of fenced preserves is growing like a cancer. If I had the power I'd ban them. Here in Michigan a guy has an outdoors show in public TV. Virtually all of his hunting episodes are on "ranches" that offer paid hunts. I guess he thinks he needs to always show kills to get viewers and he's probably right. His show has been on for years- that is what's really sad. Some years ago The editor of Bowhunter magazine wrote an article about some fenced place in Michigan he went to. He actually tried to legitimize it a real hunting experience. I met a couple of clowns that paid to "hunt" at a preserve owned by the "great" Ted Nugent- they actually thought it was great and a terrific "Hunting " experience. Amazing.

[JC]

While this story and many others like it make me sick to my stomach because of their perversion of hunting, I am concerned at how quickly some decry any/all high fence operations.

I have hunted bugscuffle in TX, as well as one or two other operations that do have high fences. On more than one occasion, I was skunked, sometimes only to return home to familiar public grounds and quickly take an animal. The greatest stalk of my life was for 6 hours on bugscuffle....it truly was a terrific hunting experience that was not diminished at all by the fact that there was a fence that I never saw once I drove through the gate. There are some reputable high fence operations, villifying all of them becuase of prostitution by some, is short sighted in my opinion.

[painthorse]

Hunting is like politics.Until we take the money out of it we will continue to have corruption.

I have never understood the need to kill just to prove you are a hunter.I guess I'm a simple man.I do not need to kill to prove I'm a hunter.Mr. Lamb said it best."BEING THERE WAS GOOD ENOUGH".

Hunt safe

Scott

[Shakes.602]

It Makes Me Sick............. And None-Too-Proud that I Live in the Same State as These "Butchers" and Defilers Of Nature. They Will PAY for what they have done.

[redant 60/65]

For all of you sick of this type of hunting, maybe you should think about getting involved in organized archery, like the NFAA or state organizations, don't just set on your butt's and talk about what you don't like, let your local reps, do it for you, and pay the dues.They are not the best, but it's all you have

[Stone Knife]

That is just pitiful. Why would someone like Jimmy Houston or any one at all even think that that is right. I guess some will go to any length to make a buck or kill that trophy if that's what they call it. It's no wonder some people despise hunters all they have to do is see something like this and form an opinion about all of us. Even though these people are clearly slobs and not sportsman.

[WLThomas IV]

Disgusting. I have a difficult time understanding how someone can be proud of shooting an animal in a "non-fair-chase" situation. Also, I don't understand how they can be so proud of a MONGO Deer that didn't get that way by being an old Mossy-Horn (naturally).  

However, I do agree that we should be careful of pointing the finger at all high fence operations. If it's big enough that the animal doesn't even know there's a fence, I reckon it's fair chase. Also, don't just jump on the compound shooters. I seem to remember us having a few skeletons in our own closet; something about somebody shooting a carribou with a rifle and writing a story about the "fair-chase bow kill"??? Incidentally, I have never hunted behind high fences and I don't shoot compounds.

[Leland]

Your right WL,we as hunters have created this by making such a big deal about size.We've lost what hunting is all about-food on the table,plain & simple!Money & ego's will destroy are hunting heritage. Leland

[Doug S]

Your right the worship and quest for big antlers is the root of ALL of it, including leasing. Cabelas is making the most of it.
We stop chasing antlers and it's all back to just hunting.
BTW I know of a traditional hunter who shot a deer in a pen (24 acres) while others chased it around.

[WLThomas IV]

Don't get me wrong. I like to look at big deer with Big antlers just like anybody. I had a monster walk up in shooting range last year and I came UNGLUED!!! But that was a true old mature Mossy-Horn buck and he definitely wasn't fenced in. Now we got this old Doe on our farm that has busted me too many times to mention. It's become personal between us. Even told a guy that hunts the farm that he can take anything on that farm he gets a chance at (monster bucks included) but if he takes that old doe with a shotgun or rifle, he's not welcome back to hunt our farm. He's honored that requirement for two, beginning the third year now. Still laughing at me for how she always outsmarts me. If she and the monster both walked in shooting range and I had a clear shot at either...which would I shoot? I'm not sure but I think I'd take her. She's become the ultimate challenge to me.

[waya]

What sorry excuses for human beings! High fence hunting should be totally outlawed. We ethical hunters know this won't happen because of the whores in politics and money talks and BS walks. I figure these guys in the video don't have any testicals(sp) because a real ethical hunter won't do what these goobers are doing. Line them up and feed them venison from a CWD infected deer. Sort of a guinea-pig experiment to see what effect tainted meat does to a human.

[Bob Sherman]

"And the non hunting public paints all of us with the same brush. Pitiful."

Yes, it is but we bring it on ourselves by trying to say they aren't hunters. Instead we need to stand up and voice opposition. he public sees them as hunters and always will.

The "Big Tent Theory" is crap used by fools like those in the video to keep doing what they do through fear. It is ignoring activities such as these that will ultimately doom hunting, not voicing opposision. If you ignore, you condone!

[LBR]

Haven't seen the video yet, but I'll chime in anyway.  My big question, for those who don't have a problem with fences, is where do you draw the line?

I think it's obvious why anyone hunts in an enclosure--be it 2 acres or 2,000 acres.  You know, without a shadow of a doubt, the animal you want is there, and will be there for as long as you care to chase it or until you kill it.

I've heard of places that are so big you don't see the fence except when you go in and when you leave, and don't doubt it can be a challenge, but again--where do you draw the line?  10 acres?  100 acres?  100 acres plus 10 square feet?

Something else to consider--I don't think the non-hunting public cares about the difference in 10 acres and 10,000 acres--perception gets turned off when they hear the word "fence" or "enclosure".  From that point on, you are shooting an animal in a cage, period.  Definately not good for our image.

I've never hunted in an enclosure, and don't have any plans to.  I just don't think I'd be happy even if I killed the biggest animal in it.  I have traveled quite a bit to hunt, as far as Canada for moose.  The closest thing I saw to a live moose was fresh tracks and scats, but it was one of the best, if not the absolute best hunt I've had in my life.  I think it was Charlie Lamb that said it best--just being there was good enough.

I can only see one correct answer, if you have any real concern over the general public's perception of hunters and hunting--don't hunt in an enclosure.

That's my two bits anyhow.

Chad

[NightHawk]

I live in Indiana and attended several of the public forums the IDNR held about closing down canned hunts.

 The Indiana Bowhunters Ass supported the closure of the canned hunt facilities, along with other sportsmen groups. Some sportsmen groups opposed the proposed closure of the canned hunting facilities (The Beaglers alliance as one such group)

 The director of the IDNR decided to close down the canned hunting facilities. Rodney Bruce an owner of one of the canned hunting facilities filed a law suite against the IDNR. At the urging of the Indiana Bowhunters Ass and the Indiana Deer Hunters Ass the IDNR accepted a proposal that will allow the canned hunt operations to operate for another 12 years.

 I believe that within that time frame the canned hunt operators hope to sway the legislature to legalize thier operations. The canned hunting operators believe it is a property rights issue. The Amish make big money breeding deer and selling them to the canned hunting operations

 I used to belong to the Indiana Bowhunters Assoc., but I have not renewed my membership because of the stance the organization took on the canned hunting issue. I felt the organization betrayed the membership, when the board decided to urge the IDNR to accept the 12 year proposal. I feel that the IBA boardshould have consulted the membership before making such an important decision.

 If you seen someone being raped would you tell the rapist that what he's doing is wrong and unethical, but he can keep doing it for 12 years, then he has to quit?? That scenario is extreme but also makes a point.

 It's time Indiana had a sportsmen group that represents bowhunters and stands up for ethics instead of playing politics

 This is my opinon

[Texasrecurve]

High fenced enclosure "hunting" will be the death of our sport as we know it. It will take a lot of years, but it will happen.

TR

[sabas silva]

It happens all around, the need for bragging rights, the need to call it a hunt and a success in what each individuals mind calls success.I hunt alot of TEXAS public land and sometimes deal with those that claim an entire public area as their own because they scouted it all year and placing permanent stands of which is illegalto begin with. If evreyone questioned their reasoning for what they do then maybe they would realize they missed the whole experience.
So the battle must continue to preserve what we love to do, and for those that follow.

[Voodoofire1]

"It's time Indiana had a sportsman group that represents bowhunters and stands up for ethics instead of playing politics"---
It's past time Dean,but so long as the almighty buck rules the roost ethics are but an afterthought, and I'm afraid as long as these hunting operations, and their greedy supporters continue to grease the anals of our politicians with their sizable donations, we will lose,and continue to lose for years to come, why?.. because we will never have the resourses to compete with the likes of these lowlifes, I live in Indiana too,and this trend of "money talks" was started long ago, and it has become "status quo" for many, and they have gotten very good at using mis-direction to shed the heat of their actions,kinda reminds me of the lawyers commercial on tv where he says" my most important case is always my next one" ,Well what about the one you have now! this state has millions of people, Each and every one supposed to be equal under the law,and each one a supposed voice, but when you throw a little money into the equasion it sure doesn't turn out that way.
 Texasrecurve, I disagree,I believe hunting will be here forever, but it will be like europe where the only the privilidged few can afford to participate.
When money talks fellas,.... hunting walks.....a very thin line,...The right to feed your family on one side as god intended, and the "privilige" to harvest some big antlers on the other as man intends, which will win? I don't know ,but I see where the money is,and I hope my childrens children are filthy stinkin rich so they can afford to hunt. When you look at the big picture it doesn't look so good,does it? just my opinions fellas.......Steve