Montana Hunters Risk Loss of Privileges for Littering

[vermonster13]

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks wardens say hunters need to be aware that littering while you're hunting, fishing or camping could end your fun for a year.

"Most hunters and anglers don't know that under Montana law, if they are convicted of littering, they forfeit their licenses and the privilege to hunt, fish, camp or trap for one year from the date of the conviction," said Jim Kropp, FWP Enforcement Division Chief.

For sportsmen, this littering law has real teeth. It applies to any holder of a Montana resident or nonresident fishing or hunting license or camping permit convicted of littering campgrounds, public or private lands, streams, or lakes while hunting, fishing or camping.

"Most sportsmen are very conscientious about protecting our resources and packing out whatever they pack in," Kropp said. "But the fact is, in Montana the privileges of hunting, fishing and camping are significant and a person can lose them, if they're careless.

[JC]

1st, hunting is a right, not a priveledge. 2nd, if they are gonna take that route, do drivers who litter lose their licenses for a year too? How about bicycle riders? How about pedestrians?

I love Montana, but sounds like they are plagued with the same idiotic bureaucracy as everywhere else. I agree with the principal of punishing littering, but this sounds like a loophole to remove hunters from the field. (shotgun shells you forgot to pick up after duck hunting, a lost arrow, dropped granola bar wrapper etc.)  

[DTS]

WOW,you talk about teeth in the law.  Living where the hunters come to hunt I see the increase in litter every September through December.  Friday evenings are the worst and then Sunday evenings.  While jogging some have actually thrown beer cans close to me.  A stiff fine would be sufficient.  I bet outdoorsman will make sure nothing has a chance of blowing out from the back of their trucks.  Tough to decide for or against.  Sure would hate to be accused and actually be not guilty. Hunting is a right..black and white no grey area.

[Texasrecurve]

Stupid law and stupid politicians.

[swp]

I wish Missouri would enact a law like this. Every year I see more litter! It is terrible around where I live and hunt.

[vermonster13]

Be careful what you wish for swp. Like JC said, why are only hunters losing so much? Why not increase the fines and actually enforce the laws so everyone using the resource has to face the same consequences?

[KodiakBob]

Sounds like the Ted Turner liberal types figure that they have bought enought of Montana to take over.

[EDW]

Well I've never been to Montana but here in Michigan I can't believe how so called
"Sportsmen" litter the woods & waters. It's terrible. I constantly find junk left behind in old blinds and in parking areas that shouldn't be left to just blow around and trash the woods.

[wapiti]

I don't think it is a bad law or a stupid law. Th problem is open endedness of what is "litter" and the abuse of its enforcement by the various law agencies. i.e. you have hiked in 2 miles and sit down to eat lunch. You eat a sandwhich and a hardboiled egg then drink your bottle of water. You haul out the bottle and sandwhich wrapper but leave the eggshell on the ground. To lose your hunting over something like that because Joe Lawdog sees you do it and writes you up, dosen't seem right.
  Others thoughts?

[EDW]

Abuse of authority by a conservation officer or game warden could occur. One the case with egg shell if I thought I'd be nailed on something like that, I would put the shell in bag & pack it out too just to be safe.  Overall I think hunters have done a lot to hurt their images with the general public by their behaviour and issues like littering & other things.  I'm not a super righteous guy but I've often picked up other's trash when I've seen it simply because I'm disgusted when it's there. Others see it too and form negative opinions of hunters.

[swp]

Vermonster,

If you saw some of the most beautiful places in the Ozarks cluttered up with trash, not only from hunters and fishermen, you might want a law like this also. Enforcement of it would be another matter entirely though.

[vermonster13]

I'm not against stiff penaltys for littering by any means, just ones that single out hunters like they are the only ones. What about the atv'ers, mountain bikers, etc. sharing the resource? Think losing a license they don't have for a year will prevent them from littering? All I am saying is make the law equitable for everyone. This kind of law aimed only at hunters would be challengeable in court I would think by the very fact that it does single out one group with a higher penalty than others.

[AZStickman]

"1st, hunting is a right, not a priveledge"
I don't necessarily agree with this law but last time I looked I didn't find the hunting ammendment in the constitution.... It is a priveledge and not a right and therefore we must be even more vigilant for laws like this and fight to protect our priveledge even more vigorously....... I'm glad we finally have a forum for this type of discussion and thank David for being in the fore front on informing us of what's happening...... We all need to learn from his example or more laws like this one will slip into effect while we are sleeping at the wheel........Every legislature has a website and it's easy to see what bills are being introduced each session..... One guy can't do it for all of us....... Terry

[EDW]

Can't believe I overlooked this but the Vermonster's original post listed anyone camping, fishing or hunting.  I guess hunters wouldn't be the only ones under scrutiny.

[vermonster13]

Actually hunting and fishing are Constitutional Rights in VT. The thing is EDW & SWP hunters and fishers have the stiffest penalty to face and that isn't equitable. Make the fines stiff for everyone. Just seems to me that there are to many ways to abuse a law with this language.

I do fishing clinics every year. At the end of the clinic I take the group fishing. First thing we do is collect all the trash in the area before we even wet a line. I try my best to teach good stewardship in the fishing clinics and bowhunter safety course.

[JC]

Terry, just because it's not listed in the Constitution doesn't mean it's not a right. Yes, it is a right, even if the liberals don't agree with it. I'm of Native American heritage....my people hunted and fished and trapped long before their were ever petty laws to regulate it. To me, activities such as this done before the advent of laws are a right, not priveledges.

And then of course, there's the "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" angle....covers a lot of ground, and justly so.

David, the potential for abuse of this law is what frightens me...singling out the very group of people who pay to keep most of this land public access is just a side irony.

[vermonster13]

Laws targeted at hunters/fisherman that aren't straight game laws, always concern me. This is a crime committed by other groups too. How is litter defined for this law? Is it open to interpretation by the warden, police officer or park ranger (forestry depts, especially federal aren't always hunter friendly)? Do you need to pack out used toilet paper? What else can be construed as litter by someone with an agenda?

[EDW]

I agree Vermonster- make penalties stiff for all.Seem when something like this comes up many react and worry about abuses by conservation people. Though I am sure that has happened, I have never had a Conservation Officer in Michigan get out of line with me or step over the line with authority. Then again my contacts with them have been minimal.About the only time I've met up with them has been on openers for trout seasons when they've been out checking licenses or when I've checked in a deer. Ever since I've been fishing and hunting I never littered and always respected the outdoors. The fact a law has been enacted to police this indicates to me a problem already exists. That to me is the unfortunate thing.Just as you said about the cleanup during fishing classes- if others were doing the right thing, you would not even have to do it.

[JC]

Originally posted by EDW:
The fact a law has been enacted to police this indicates to me a problem already exists.

But what if the law is enacted as a political agenda....in this case, specifically targeting one segment of society while not transferring the same law to other segments smacks of something less than genuine concern over the problem. Like just about everywhere else, there is little need for more laws, but enforcement for the laws that already exist. I'll bet there's already multiple laws on the books in Montana that target litter in general.....

[vermonster13]

My whole concern is the agenda behind the whole thing, even if a problem exists, laws like this are easily perverted. What about the illegal dumps, highway trash, etc? Also as JC says there are laws in place already, here in VT littering is punishable by a $500 fine along roadways, pull-offs etc. If those fines are imposed equally for all violators then it is as it should be, but to directly target hunting and fishing enthusiests troubles me.