Author Topic: Montana Hunters Risk Loss of Privileges for Littering (Read 4423 times)

EDW · « **Reply #20 on:** October 18, 2006, 07:03:00 PM »

[/qb][/QUOTE]But what if the law is enacted as a political agenda...[/QB][/QUOTE]
Any proof that it was? The original thread includes- campers, trappers,fishermen and hunters while participating in those activities. I may me wrong but I do not think a littering ticket you might get for throwing a paperwad on a lawn in town while not hunting etc.. gets you suspended. If any Montanans are out there maybe they can check & clarify. I'd like to ask this: Is there any excuse at all for trashing the woods where you & others hunt and fish? Supposedly we're the ones that love and want to protect the outdoors so why would anyone want to litter?. If you have the energy to tote in a can of pop & a sandwich in your pack why can't you take the can & wrapper out?

vermonster13 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2006, 07:06:00 PM »

There is no excuse, but the penalties need to be the same for all users of the resource and not just those listed. By the way, do you have any proof that there is no agenda?

EDW · « **Reply #22 on:** October 19, 2006, 07:31:00 PM »

Can't "prove" a negative. I can't prove I didn't kill anyone yesterday either.
The concerns and worries about this to me are really far fetched. for comparison recently on certain Michigan rivers authorities had increased patrols and enforcement of laws due to unruly people swearing, getting drunk and otherwise getting out of control while canoeing and tubing. Does this unfairly target this group? No it targets the rowdies that get out of hand & ruin things for others. If this law in Montana is on the books it's simple to me- DON'T LITTER!!!! Same with hunting out season, poaching, not tagging you aniimal if required by law or anything. I don't think any game warden is going to plant a candy wrapper to bust someone- wow that will make the front page. :D

vermonster13 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 19, 2006, 08:16:00 PM »

No one is saying wardens will plant anything. You have no concerns and that is fine for you. I agree don't litter, don't anyone litter.

Walt Francis · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2006, 01:19:00 PM »

Hey guys, the law has been on the books since the mid 1990's, and it works really well. For clarification, the law states they "MAY" loose their huntng and fishing privilages, not will. Final punishment or fines are either determined by the local justice of the peace, judge, or by jury. If you visited the state before the law was enacted then visited it recently, you would see the difference it made in cleaning up public lands. I hate to admit it, but there were a lot of slob/littering hunters and fishermen in Montana before the law was enacted. Like JC, I dislike increased laws and regulations, but something was needed and most inprotantly "IT WORKS". Though not perfect, there is a distinct diference in the amount of litter I see while hunting and fishing now compared to the early 1990's. As a side note, I would also like to see a simular law for the drivers in our state, the largest source of currently.

Walt Francis

JC · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2006, 02:42:00 PM »

My point is, why target hunters and fisherman...why not just say ANYONE who litters can lose their drivers license for a month. Don't have a drivers license, you do 1000 hrs community service. That'll get some attention.

But specifically targeting one segment IS wrong. The penalty ought to be equal, whomever is doing it. With this stupid law, there is no recourse if a Warden catches a non-hunter/fisher littering. And if there is, why not just enforce that existing law? I'm sure there's already laws on the books that say don't litter.

wapiti · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2006, 03:40:00 PM »

I haven't seen any effectiveness from this law. Every year I carry out AT LEAST one large bag of crap from the camp site where I hunt. Some from hunters I am sure but most from the local kids from 'parties' from what the townfolk tell me.
I have personaly experianced over bearing and zealous law enforcement. I even had a chance to talk with several local guys about what had happened to me. They laughed and said join the club as this guy was an #&&. I say was because he retired as of this year.
Another point is this may be a state law but littering on federal lands is a federal law. I think the littering thing has been covered already. We need something diffrent for ALL violators.
I am in agreement we need a law equal for all.

motormouth · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2006, 05:02:00 PM »

i am now a resident of montana and that is not right. hunting is a privilige i think someone said here and thats the truth.

motormouth · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2006, 05:03:00 PM »

i am now a resident of montana and that is not right. hunting is a privilige i think someone said here and thats the truth.

EDW · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2006, 10:56:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Walt Francis:
Hey guys, the law has been on the books since the mid 1990's, and it works really well. For clarification, the law states they "MAY" loose their huntng and fishing privilages, not will. Final punishment or fines are either determined by the local justice of the peace, judge, or by jury. If you visited the state before the law was enacted then visited it recently, you would see the difference it made in cleaning up public lands. I hate to admit it, but there were a lot of slob/littering hunters and fishermen in Montana before the law was enacted. Like JC, I dislike increased laws and regulations, but something was needed and most inprotantly "IT WORKS". Though not perfect, there is a distinct diference in the amount of litter I see while hunting and fishing now compared to the early 1990's. As a side note, I would also like to see a simular law for the drivers in our state, the largest source of currently.

Yeah to that!!!!!

Walt Francis

John Dill · « **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2006, 03:33:00 PM »

There seems to be a mix up of thoughts on what a "right" is and what a "privilege" is with our hunting. Websters defines a right as just and good or power or privilage. The key word is power. Basically your god given right to hunt and use our land as a human being. A privilege is defined as a special right or granted right. In other words a privilege in our situation with hunting would be granted by mans law giving us a privilege to hunt. I personally feel it is my god given right to hunt. Not my privilege to hunt which can be revoked simply by a change in my privilege. I agree with laws contoling manners of hunting, game laws etc. But any law that interferes with my "right" to hunt I take issue. This may be slightly off topic but I wanted to throw my two cents on rights and privileges

et · « **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2006, 01:15:00 PM »

Unfortunately, hunters earned this law. Yes it was a small minority but their impact is huge and a black eye to the rest of the users. Most of the folks that leave a mess behind during hunting season do the same during the rest of the year. Now if they learn to keep their camp clean during the hunting season we might have a chance of them picking up after them selves during the rest of the year. People seem more then willing to risk jail time and community service but the loss of hunting privileges sure seems to get their attention. et

vermonster13 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 24, 2006, 09:01:00 PM »

I hope they never decide hunters or fisherman are speeding to much during the seasons.

Brian Krebs · « **Reply #33 on:** October 27, 2006, 01:21:00 AM »

I second what Dill said.

Here in Idaho; there was an attempt to clarify that hunting was a right- it only failed because the child support 'people' wanted the right to take away the priviledge of hunting if a person didn't pay their child support.

I think 500 dollar fines for littering are enough; and that taking away hunting 'priviledges'is too much.

I don't believe hunting has anything to do with the act of littering; and the two: have no business being connected that way.

Hunters may litter; but a litter bug does not have to be a hunter.

And toilet paper left behind.. [do pardon the pun]-- IS considered litter by the forest service.. all depends on where you live; and the enforcement policies.....

Bob Sherman · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2006, 12:59:00 PM »

There is no teeth here whatsoever. I was disappointed after moving here to find the largest concentration of roadhunters I've ever seen. It is an absolute joke the number of roadhunters in Montana and there doesn't appear to be any teeth for them.

I haven't heard of one hunter ever losing their license for littering.

AZStickman · « **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2006, 01:23:00 PM »

Quote

"Terry, just because it's not listed in the Constitution doesn't mean it's not a right. Yes, it is a right, even if the liberals don't agree with it. I'm of Native American heritage....my people hunted and fished and trapped long before their were ever petty laws to regulate it. To me, activities such as this done before the advent of laws are a right, not priveledges."

I'd like to be able to agree with you JC.... I'd like even more for hunting to truly be a right but it is not and never will be.......It is a highly regulated priveledge and one I hold highly and do not abuse.......Even though you have a native american heritage hunting is not a right even on the sovereign nations.....Even there it is a highly regulated priveledge....It may have been a right until mankind developed the capability of wiping out whole species and modern conservatation programs had to be developed to protect a piece of the heritage we all share..... No matter where your ancestors are from all of our lineages go back to hunter gatherers.... Right?? Wrong???..... I don't know I just live with the reality and get out and enjoy the priveledge every chance I get..... Terry

MI_Bowhunter · « **Reply #36 on:** November 10, 2006, 01:41:00 PM »

It seems to me that this law is just another wedge against hunters. Whether it is enforced or not, it is on the books and sets a precedent for future laws.

These types of laws could eventually add up and make it impossible to hunt, without us ever actually losing the right/privilege to hunt. That's what scares me about it.

Rigs · « **Reply #37 on:** November 12, 2006, 04:19:00 PM »

Vermonster13 quote "I'm not against stiff penaltys for littering by any means, just ones that single out hunters like they are the only ones."

I've been places here in Montana that I know hunters were the only other people that had any reason to be there. And like Wapiti, I've carried out more crap (mountain to the prairies) than a big bear can jump over. Just the other day while scouting an Island on the Missouri, I came across an old ameristep blind that the elements had hammered, orange trail tape, a milk crate that was used in the remnants of that blind, old broken down hang-on stands still swinging by their chains in the tree, pop cans, beer cans, and candy wrappers. So you tell me this wasn't "hunters" that littered this pretty piece of Montana? Who else would use this stuff??

If the shoe fits......I think the penalties are right, I just wish that they would actively seek stiffer penalties for this lazy individual that calls his/herself a hunter. It may help thwem clean up their act... If you take away their drivers liscense(as was suggested), they can still hunt. Take away their hunting and watch them clean up their mess next time.....

Happy hunting,
Jason

vermonster13 · « **Reply #38 on:** November 12, 2006, 05:56:00 PM »

Hey you guys live there and if you are happy being specifically targeted, more power to you. I am sure the way things have changed out there, your legislature will be doing even more to make you feel special.

Al Dean · « **Reply #39 on:** November 13, 2006, 07:59:00 AM »

Just a note, having been born in Montana and having a lot of realitives still there. Most of the damage to Montana's wilderness and great outdoors has been done by Montana residents not by non-residents visiting. They have had to enacted really stringient laws to try and get it under control. Guess the old Montana residents thought it would last forever and that they did not have to take care of it.

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Author Topic: Montana Hunters Risk Loss of Privileges for Littering (Read 4423 times)

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