SW PA deer slaughter ???

[2manybows]

Hi,
   I was watching the news tonight and I was shocked at what I saw.

   In Mt Lebanon PA they are sending in sharpshooters to shoot off excess deer. They say they are going to go in and shoot soft bullets at them because it will be safer in the populated area. If they will drop a deer they will drop a man.

This is ridiculous. I do agree that there may be a deer pop. problem down there but why not trap them and relocate them throughout the state ? I know up here in Venango county it would be a welcome site to see a few more deer. Heck I would even volunteer to help the relocation. But to go in with so called sharpshooters is insane.

   They were showing the locals down there are even camping out in the woods with protest signs.

   I do not believe this is a good image for hunting all around. I think they should be able to relocate the deer. They also stated that the Department of Agriculture is the ones that are setting up the hunt.

 Has anyone else in PA heard about this. Or has anyone outside the area had it done in thier neck of the woods ? It kinda reminds me of the dart shooting game show (WHO)

[Rusty in Fla.]

It seems like an extended hunting season would be better to take care of the problem. Or maybe some kind of a quota hunt for that specific area. Maybe narrowing it down to archery only if it's really that crowded an area.

     Rusty <><

[buck-tamer00]

they were doin the same thing here in nevada,
there was a forest fire,
and they wanted to kill the deer that  were in the area that were goin to die eventually from stavation.

you still had to use tags,
you'd just get them over the counter for like 30 bucks if I rememeber correctly.

[702plmo]

The populated areas in Indiana that have a overpopulation of deer, are granted permission from our DNR to have a "Archery Only" hunt.   All hunters must have a archery safety course card.  
  I have not taken part of these hunts but some friends have and they said it was a good time.   The deer that were taken did not count towards you regular hunting permits.

[barebow]

They bring in snipers to kill deer in and around the Cuyahoga National Recreation Area in Ohio almost every year. This is Federal land and they will not allow hunting of any kind on this government property. The area holds some of the best deer in the state. They claim bowhunting is not an effective way to control the herds, but won't even give us a chance to try. Many people would be happy to pay to hunt at such a place and the money could go to help the deer management in a positive way. Unfortunately, all the effort to change the situation has never helped.

[LCB]

Wildlife management is the responsibility of the PA game commission. What a messed up situation. No deer in some parts of the state, and snipers killing them other parts. It all just makes me  

[**oneshot**]

Most of the areas that they are sending in the troops to control the deer are the same populated areas that the residents won't allow hunters to hunt.  And I am afraid that these are the same areas that they base the doe tags limits on.  Quite a few private land areas that I hunt around here put up "No Does" signs at the access areas in an attempt to build the herds back up.

[TimZeigler]

They did it on the Gettysburg battlefield in the mid 90's.  I remember seeing in on the news when I was stationed in California, so it was a national story.  I remember my family and friends telling me about how they were taking truck loads of deer and dumping them afterwards. Sad and disappointing to say the least.

[jimneye]

I don't understand how the state can send someone onto private land ( which most of this land is) without the permission of the land owner.

[2manybows]

I agree with all of you. To my understanding these snipers are NOT liscensed hunters. They are hired hitmen to do this. The Game Commision is not controlling this issue. The Dept. of Agriculture is the one deeming this necessary.

   I also believe though this is imoral. It would be very effective to go in and trap these deer and relocate them. I for one would volunteer to see these deer relocated to areas that have scarse deer populations, my back yard for one. The doe season has wiped out our deer herd up here.

   I also believe they could go to the local colleges and ask them for help and as part of studies in the classrooms they can use this relocation as a Project. And i am more than sure you could ask all of those people that were on the news last night to help, and get alteast a 50% turnout from them.

They mentioned a few times in the news cast that the auto accidents are up from the deer population. And it is playing a factor in this shooting.

[2manybows]

PA has become a real joke in controlling deer.  Our deer will become extinct here then we will have to set up a rescue like our Elk.

  Our deer have to contend with 2 weeks of Doe Season that run the same weeks as Buck Season, bonus tags,  the game commission and insurance companies dumping coyotes.  

  When I was at the '05 Penninsula hunt a fellow hunter asked the game warden at the meeting before the hunt about Mountain Lions and they confirmed that they did indeed place Lions in various counties to help control the populations. On top of all of this They send "Sharpshooters" in to thin the already overall thin PA deer herd.  

 Just completely sick. What will the future hold for my son ? He definately will have no passion for the outdoors without deer in the woods.

   How can I keep his interest in the woods with nothing to see out there ? I know when I started out , I hated waiting but I knew they were there and I would see them, now I go out just to measure the grass.

  Just fustrating.

[bowfiend]

It seems like the PA thing might be a botched press release. I remember reading about this being done in Princeton, NJ but the guys would set up a corn feeder in a park and sit in a treestand all night with suppressed .223's. The public was never aware of what was happening and, by default, not given an opportunity to comment.
Realstically, I don't think relocation would be an effective method of population control. Animals would always move back into the area in question. I, of course, am all up for utilizing the readily available bowhunter population as a remedy. If the state gov. can send in sharpshooters, I'm sure they could arrange for hunter access to private lands.
Also, I have some family in wetsern PA (self described as Pennsyltucky) and they have a hard time finding mature bucks to fill their tags. With this in mind, it seems like a drastic reduction in the doe population would serve the remaining population well.

They should be doing it with bowhunters, though...

[Minuteman]

Calling deer snipers "hit men" ain't right.Immoral? Deer relocation programs are very expensive and don't tend to get the results that a well applied cull brings. Many deer die from the stress induced during transit and relocation.
 Perhaps you should lobby yer nat. resources dept to change the bag limits to protect yer does and bring the #'s up near you.

[Wudstix]

Special "Archery Only" extended hunt sounds like the answer to the problem.

[fflintlock]

A few years back, did'nt the insurance companies get on the game commission to open up controlled hunts in Pittsburg, due to high traffic accidents ? I beleive it was shotgun and bow only. Or did'nt they go through with it ?
 Just like, who wants to shoot at already spooky deer in january with a flintlock ?
 I was born there, spent half of my life there, but it just ain't the same any more, I do miss the scenery though, I'll tell ya that !
Jerald

[2manybows]

Yes they are baiting the deer to shoot them. And relocating the deer 100 miles away..I do not believe they will move back to that loaction anytime soon. As for your family in Western PA, they have inflicted the demise of our doe population. And the end result is an empty freezer for 2yrs in a row. There are no deer left. And yes when you eliminate the doe button bucks do fall too. So yes in the future I see a very limited amount of Bucks. When you send in one of the largest amount of Hunters in the United sates in for 1 or even 3 mature bucks there will not be enough to go around.

  The real bad part of it is I have noticed more and more posted land every year. Because landowners do not want to see the deer population diminish. I too will be posting this year. It's sad when you have to keep fellow neighbors off your land just so your so and daughters have a place to hunt in the future.

[2manybows]

Okay....Here is another look on it. I know SEVERAl hunters that did not fill tags this year. Or even last year. I say let the guys from last year ('05) come up and even take a class on the techniques that these snipers use. (so everything is cosher) and allow them to fill thier tags. Then once they are filled let the hunters from '06 in. And if there still is not enough taken let a lottery be held on tags.

  I just have this bad feeling these der will be shot and thrown in a land fill by the truck loads.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Relocation doesn't work worth a darn.  The loss rate on relocated deer is well over 50%.

Snipers are a silly option.  What a waste of a resource.

[vermonster13]

Snipers are used for several reasons (I am not condoning just giving you the information politicians use for the decision process). As stated above relocating deer has a very high loss rate and a lot of the deer relocated die afterwards. The snipers can accomplish in one weekend what would take bowhunters relegated to daytime only hunting months or more to do. Also by deputizing the snipers they can get land access that would be denied us as this is a public safety issue and not a hunt. The municipality best be using there own funds and not F&G funds, if I was a PA resident I would be making certain of that.

Here is a link on how effective bowhunting can be as an urban management tool. Thing is this is not a quick fix and is most effective when put into effect before the deer become so overpopulated. I would be pushing for instituting such a plan for after the snipers do their work.

 http://www.wlfa.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1954

Also you might want to post these types of threads in the Hunting Issues and Politics Forum. that way folks who are involved in this kind of stuff are much more likely to see it and help where they can. Also there is always the chance a thread like this could be deleted in Pow Wow.

[Dale Hajas]

Bowhunters at one time DID do this. It is not a PGC cull.  

Jeff S. is right about a high mortality rates. The figure we used in Bow Ed classes was near 75% death rate due to shock. That figure may have been updated since I was a MBIT.

As far as insurance co's go.... that is a big farce and is easily proved yet never believed.

As far as no deer in SW PA- 2 weeks AFTER deer hunting season was over, 40 deer were sighted by my son and I, within 1/2 mile of each other on PUBLIC huntable ground, within a 10 minute walk from my house. A 1 mile diameter. PA has ALWAYS had high deer numbers in some spots and NOT in others. It's still the same, just different spots.

The shame of it all is that BOWHUNTERS- no matter what type of equipment- are being pushed aside. The taxpayers are paying $19,000 for this cull to take place, and they arent happy.

 Now that the public has to pay it's only a matter of time until we see what "pull" the hunting community has in affluent, liberal suburbia. This is one to watch as the animal rights cult was behind this protest.

With a democratic government in PA, the time is prime for such a conflict to take place. You guys in Utah remember when Klinton stole the Grande Escalante?? How 'bout Kate McGinty?? She was a big part of the Klinton's team that came up with hat scheme. She is a major player in Rendell's administration.


Stayed tuned!