Controversial Predator Control

[Izzy]

Well folks this is gonna be hard for some to stomach but listen.Wolves are in the process of being delisted,coyotes are despised by many,(I shoot em but I respect and admire them), countless other varmints are hunted and trapped in the name of predator control.Lets not forget the cats.Why is it then that raptors fly under the radar.Sure theyre beneficial to an extent but no more so than other predators when properly managed.Ive found evidence of numerous turkey kills as well as personally witnessed birds of prey killing poults and adult grouse.Lets not even mention rabbits.Where have all the woodchucks gone to here in the east?Lets not just blame the coyotes although they do have a part in it.Hawks do a job on baby chucks.I hope I dont get stoned by the next TradGanger I meet in person but I think its time the hunting community rethink their position on the killer birds.I dont despise them, theyre beautiful and noble to an extent but they need to be better managed, although I  suspect that they by the shoot,shovel and shut up folks which does not include me.Well there you are people, my 2 cents.Im not a professional wildlife manager but I spend enough time out there to see whats going on.Share your thoughts with me please.What solutions do you see? In addition, I do not suggest that we take matters into our own hands and violate any laws whatsoever but could use some scientifically sound,researched management techniques.  

[Benha]

I disagree.

[adkmountainken]

ouch!!! this ain't going to be good. the hawk is a very spiritual animal to me and i would hate to think the s.s.s method is the answer.

[TSHOOTER]

I respectfully disagree as well.

[Killdeer]

I would sooner cut my arm off at the elbow than harm a raptor. They are kin, and more.

Completely unscientific, just a gut reaction.    
This is one of the very few cases in which I am not inspired to objectively explore all of the ramifications. Perhaps it will gnaw at me to the point where I will. As much as I believe that the laws that were enacted to protect birds from the millinery market hunters are outdated, heavy-handed and unAmerican in that they presume guilt rather than having to prove it, 'sss' is a vile, cowardly act. Its juxtaposition with the birds I revere (and rely on) generates revulsion and rancor in my heart.

Ick.
Killdeer

[adkmountainken]

i'm with Killy, its not just a hawk your talking about its my brother, loved, respected and honored.

[JohnB]

I agree 100%

[Forester]

I would tend to disagree as well.  Here is a question to ponder:  What has the raptor population been like over recent history while the 'chuck population seems to be declining?  What is the coyote ppopultaion trend in that same period?  I just happened to ask a few of these questions while sharing my observations with a wildlife biologist last week.  He seemed to confirm that the raptors have been holding their own and maybe even declining due to less food supply while the coyote population in the east has been growing.  The woodchuck decline seems to be directly correlated with Wile E's rise while the hawks may be having to hunt harder because the coyotes are getting more mice, rabbits, chucks, etc....  These seem to be the observations in the south-central Appalachians anyway....

[Budog56]

IMO..Skunks and coon are way harder on the turkey, pheasant, grouse, etc. than any bird of prey. And as far as Im concerned (being a horse owner and being around cattle) they can eat all the gophers, prairie dogs etc. that they want. Im convinced they will not make them extinct..Just my opinion.

[Izzy]

Mt Ken and Killy, I suspected this would evoke some emotions but I feel spiritual ties to the coyote the way you do to the birds.I dont think either one is more destructive than the other but they do both need sound management that the raptpors are lacking.Respectfully Herk.

[dougers]

herkimerhunter, i think redtails are more abundant than cotton tails in my area.  thats not true obviously, but their numbers are much higher than i remember them.  i dont know enough to say whether there are too many or not, but i do see a lot more when im out there.  i agree, in a way, with the rest so far as i would have a difficult time killing one.  i dont know how much attention wildlife managers give them but, it would seem to me their numbers would directly affect small game.  we have very few rabbits and grouse compared to years ago. obviously there are other factors, but i think it would be hard to deny the hawk's part.  this is interesting to me because three years ago i would totally be blasting the thought of killing birds of prey thinking they are something noble.  it will be interesting to see where this leads, i hope the issue doesnt become such that the birds need to be controlled. nothing quite like the screech of a circling hawk over a valley on a crisp, cold, fall morning.

[Shawn Leonard]

I have to disagree, their are plenty of turkeys in my area and tons of rabbits as well. They do a great service by help controlling rodents and such. Now coyotes are a different storty, they really destroy the deer pop. and wreck the hunting I love most. I see no negatives to having birds of prey in my world!! Shawn

[jmiller]

Humans are a lot bigger problem than raptors or coyotes will ever be.  Reducing the population of humans would do more good for this planet than anything, but we don't ever discuss that.  I say let the coyotes and raptors work it out on their own.  Nature is a lot better at fixing its problems than people.  We removed ourselves from nature a long time ago, so I don't think we have to right to decide how to manage it.

[Shawn Leonard]

I should add a lot of what you speak of disappearing is the lack of farming and small farms in general. There is a lack of necessary cover and habitat for the species you speak of. I can go 25 miles south of me and see tons of chucks and you know my rabbit population, also I know of areas where grouse are very abundant I also might add all the areas I mentioned have a lot of birds of prey, even bald eagles which have made a huge comeback along the hudson. Shawn

[Bill Shepard]

I live in an area of Western Washington that has a healthy bald eagle and hawk population.  I've come to admire both of them and look for them whenever I'm out in the pasture.  In all the years I've watched them, I've only seen them kill fish and rodents.  Everything else they eat is already dead.  

Coyotes have a purpose, but they reproduce at a much higher rate than raptors.  I think their populations need to be managed much more closely.

Just my opinion. ;o)

[vermonster13]

Agree with Shawn. Small game hunting has been losing popularity here over the past couple of decades and much of what raptors eat are considered nuisance species and those species will increase reproduction to stay with what the land can support with whatever is taken by predators. This is a nonissue that just won't get public support for emotional reasons alone.

[pintail_drake2004]

I agree with jmiller, damn city folk thinks its fun to buy a farm and subdivide. next thing you know you have 50 more families w/ more kids on the way.
Some people just shouldnt be allowed to breed.

[Roadkill]

Few raptors kill deer, elk or sheep.  I have an owl that lives in my shop and none of his pellets indicate anything more than rodents.

[ishiwannabe]

Interesting topic for sure. I think man has made enough animals disappear. It is one thing to hunt, another to "manage". I for one enjoy seeing the hawks, falcons and eagles....even if it would mean less small game, which I doubt. Nature has its own ways of species survival. Normally the prey outbreeds the hunters...

[Longbows4life]

ok i read the first couple post on here and he talked about the s.s.s. but he never said he did it as to me it seemed you guys were accusing him of. i mean no disrespect. to me i live in san diego county and cant say much we dont have a very good rabbit population we have some decent dove quail pheasent hunting in or area but not the best. we have enough coyotes an mountain lions. and quite a few raptors. i do think that if the are a predator just like all the other predatore animals there should be a chance to do something if need be. i have to nest by my house and have had chickens taken up right in font of us will were playing a game outside. so if they do that image what they will be more willing to do with out peole around. i do respect them and think they are beautiful but i also think all the things i shoot are. so i think if the population supports it why can they not be hunted just like most other game animals or even non game animals. i mean no disrespect to those that are close to them i respect them to along with all the other animals.