Hunter numbers declining except for

[Doug S]

I know this is a political thing but wanted to make sure everyone read it.
We hunters have a problem. All but 1 state lose hunter numbers every year (Missouri and 33,600 kids under 12 hunted deer and turkey in 2006). States that allow youth under age 12 to hunt gain 82 hunters for every 100 lost. States that do not allow under 12 youth to hunt gain 54 hunters for every 100 lost. (Feild and Stream under "bullet points").
35 states allow under 12 hunting. We here in South Dakota just had our bill squashed in a big part by some HED instructors worries and fears. Yet the safety records and success of these kids hunting is almost perfect. Between Missouri, Texas, Georgia, Kentucky and Florida total population roughly 65 million people(all allow hunting under 10 down to 0 and keep good records)there were 2 accidents between 2002 and 2005 (3 yrs). I called each state. These kids are hunting Deer, Turkey and small game supervised by adults. One of the HED's fears is that we adults will teach our kids the wrong way to hunt. How is it the adults of these other states can teach their kids safely but we can't? I don't understand.  IF something wasn't tought perfect in the feild by Dad or Gramps then it could be corrected in the class room. Like the other states. Thats what hunter ed is for. These other states are 28 hunters ahead of us in helping to keep hunting alive in America. Makes me sad/sick. esp when SAFETY/accidents are a non factor.
Thanks

[Stone Knife]

This topic will probably get moved, anyhow i feel that we are fighting a losing battle if our numbers keep declining how will we hold our own. In NY you have to be 12 to hunt small game and 14 to bow hunt big game. There is a bill up now to lower the age for big game with a bow to 12. I am in favor of this not only because my son is 10 and this will give us a chance to hunt together sooner, but also i feel that if we wait to long you will loose our youth to other interests both good and bad. Grated you don't use a weapon in other sports but what if they put an age limit on baseball football golf etc. you get the idea. A lot of people would be complaining about that. It's just another tool for the anti's and left wingers to exterminate us, just my angry opinion

[Doug S]

Stone,
  I hope your bill passes. I can see how it's going to be tough though considering where alot of your population is. The anti's know if you get them young you win.

[vermonster13]

Sveral states have bills up to lower the hunting age. The cause of their defeat often isn't safety concerns(though they use that) but hunters not supporting them either out of greed. They see the kids as competition for their game. Sad. In Vermont if you can past the safety course, you can hunt. We have one of the highest hunter/nonhunter ratios in the country if not the highest. If you can't start them young you lose most. The anti's know this and seed fears to prevent allowing youth to hunt every chance they get.

[Stone Knife]

I have heard guy's squawk about the youth turkey season because they don't want anyone getting out before them.

[Al Dente]

First, hunting is THE safest sport out of every single avtivity out there.  There have been exhaustive stuies done, and the facts are perfectly clear.

Second, the mantra holds true: Take a child hunting, and you won't have to hunt for your child.

Third, it's unfortunate that NYS has the highest minimum age requirements in the entire nation.

Fourth, I think it's a total crock that hunters' numbers are declining.  The Sportsmen Education group of guys  that I am a part of, puts hundreds of new hunters through both the Regular and Bowhunter Safety courses every year.  I'm sure the thousands of other teams do the same across the state.  There's no way there's more hunters dying than new recruits.  I think it's hunters rebelling against the DEC and NOT purchasing licenses.  That's the way they get their data, from license sales, so the data is very likely to be skewed.

[Doug S]

Al
 You have to average against the entire population. There may be more hunters than in 1970 but not as a percentage of the population. That's where we lose it.
I don't know any hunters that don't buy a license unless they are exempt for some reason.

[jonsimoneau]

I think part of the reason that hunter numbers are declining is due to access issues in many parts of the nation.  Leasing may just be "the way it is now", and it is not all bad, but I think it strongly curtails young hunters from getting involved.  How many 16 year old kids can pay to get in on a deer lease?  Sad but true, hunting has reached supply and demand status in many areas.

[Doug S]

Jons I think your partly right. But i know some that lease their farms and let the leasors bring any kid under 16 no extra charge. Thats good. But the thing that is behind leasing is something most of us are all guilty of and thats Antler worship. Make it illegal to shot a buck with antlers past his ears and see how many would be willing to lease. It would kill a huge industry and make it just hunting again.
I just am mad because those within are ranks HED's  are negativily afecting hunter numbers for no good reason.

[vermonster13]

There are many issues involved with declining hunter numbers. 1 parent families, families where both parents must work, land access, habitat deterioration, lack of exposure to a hunting culture, etc. Mentoring programs would go a long ways to curing much of what ails us as well improvements of public land habitats. Help hunting, introduce someone to it and take the time to get them started right.

[Al Dente]

As it is right now, with our (NYB) Youth Camps, we put over 100 kids through the bowhunter safety course each year.  Kids 11-16 spend a weekend away with a parent and learn about archery and bowhunting.  All this is free, sponsored by us (NYB).  We then have a Youth Hunt.  One child is picked from each Region in NYS, there are 9 Regions, and they get to go on a deer hunt.  A member donates his farm, sets up tree stands and ground blinds, and the kids, and parents sleep in tents over the course of a 3 day weekend.

Maybe some state organizations can a cue and start something like these programs up.  All you need are volunteers willing to do it, the kids love it, and word spreads around.

We do also have a problem with landowner access. Especially on Long Island.  The wineries don't like the deer eating their grapes, but deny us access, the home owners don't like the deer eating their landscaping, but they too deny us access, the towns don't like all the deer/vehicle collisions, but they as well deny us access.

There is a lot of state land, DEP watershed properties, a few DEC properties, and if you knock on some doors, you can get lucky.  But... a lot of guys don't wany to hike in anymore.  You hunt a state park, within 20 minutes, you'll pass a lot of hunters, you have to go deeper in a get a spot away from the roads.  Some guys want to drop a deer right near the road.  They don't want to drag it out, but they'll complain they didn't see any deer.  I think that plays a part as well.

Regardless, YOU must get involved in order to curtail this problem.  Can you imagine the growth we would have, if EVERY hunter got just one child or person involved with the sport.  I personally bring in at least 3 new recruits into OUR brethren every year.  If you don't get involved don't ask why.  Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

This past weekend we (NYB) manned a booth at the Rockland County Outdoor Show.  We had an average of 9 guys in the booth for 4 days.  We signed up over 250 members.  Hunters just don't know what is going on within their sport.  It could be anti activity, corporate sponsorship, legislative issues, DEC issues, wildlife disease, habitat changes, etc..., they just don't know.  When we tell them about mandatory Blaze Orange during bow season (2 years ago), or putting the muzzleloader into bow season (last year), their jaws drop.  "Oh, I wasn't aware of that"  Well get involved dammit and YOU WILL KNOW!!!!   HELP US HELP YOU!!!!  I can't say it any simpler than that.

[Doug S]

Al you are right. If we all bring in a newbie every year were set. How do you take those kids on a hunt if in New York they can't hunt till 16?  It's easier to get younger kids involved. No competition from sports ect....

[Al Dente]

We're trying to get the minimum age lowered from 16 to 14 for firearm, and from 14 to 12 for bow.  That's why we need folks to make just a phonecall.  

In regards to our Youth Bowhunt, they must be 14 to go on the hunt.  You can take the Bowhunter Safety Course at 11, but can't bowhunt until you're 14.  Makes no sense at all.