Coyote pups,,, pics

[vermonster13]

Well written answer Steve. You studied pretty close to me.

[Steve Kendrot]

Thanks. I miss that area a lot. I really loved the North Country. There was a UVM student who did a study in the late 80's early 90's on your side of the lake. Person was his name if you are interested in looking it up. Fascinating stuff.

[vermonster13]

I believe that is one of a few I have had cross my desk at one time or another.

[ishiwannabe]

I dont know if they were professional wildlifers...it was DEC afterall. LOL.
As far as seeing 27...It happened. Believe it or not...I know yotes a bit, although I have never "studied" them other than what I see in the woods. I disagree with the eight per pack average...unless the Greene county yotes are way out of the ordinary. I do agree that when they are howling it is almost impossible to guess their number. The 27 never made a sound by the way...

[vermonster13]

Anyone who is interested in how the other side feels this issue should be handled should check-out the coyote thread in the Hunting Issues and Politics Forum. Comments aren't only welcome but are encouraged.

[Shawn Leonard]

This is my last post on the subject. This is for the guys that say they have no effect on their game populations, that is bogus. It is a proven fact that they have an effect, what it is may be different but they do influence deer movement and do in fact kill a lot of fawns no matter where you are from. The deer population in certain areas may be able to sustain such killings but in most it cannot! Shawn

[jeff w]

Well, so much for "I only kill what I eat".

[Steve Kendrot]

All I am suggesting is that you can't judge the impact of coyotes by the pile of bones they leave behind. Lots of things kill fawns, and I would be hesitant to conclude that every one dragged to a coyote's den is one less that will prance by my stand in the fall. I do not doubt they influence deer movements. I've seen it in the hills where I grew up.  In the 80s, a 2-3 mile hike around "my" mountain would kick up 15-20 deer. A few years ago, that same hike resulted in no sightings, but the tracks in the snow told me not for lack of deer. I think they spooked long before I ever got close to them. The places where predators can inhibit deer herds are typically where habitat conditions are poor and support low deer densities anyways.

[Steve Kendrot]

From the PA GC deer study posted in the hunting issues forum...

"These predator kills represent about one percent of the animals we were tracking during the fall of 2006, and less than one percent of all of the female deer we have followed over the past two years. Clearly, predators have not had a substantial impact on our radio-collared female deer on either study area."

2 predator kills in 2006 by one bobcat and one bear. Those darn coyotes! Granted, these are adult deer, but it does support my contention that coyote impacts are greatly exagerated.

[jeff w]

Steve,   would you happen to know the mortality rate for coyote pups?   Just curious as to how many of these pups would be expected to survive their first year?

[Budog56]

Originally posted by jeff w:
Well, so much for "I only kill what I eat".

They may not be something many people eat but I have seen some really nice stuff made form their hides.

[jeff w]

What would you make out of the pup hides?

[Budog56]

You win jeff w not trying to get in an argument..didnt have pups on my mind just yotes in general..Ya'll have fun with this topic I am staying out of it from now on..

[Steve Kendrot]

Jeff,

Depends where they live and what kind of human pressures they are exposed to. In areas with alot of human activity, if 2 out of 5 survived their first year, I'd be suprised. And if they live near Shawn even fewer!      

Despite my defense of coyotes, I really don't have a problem with people killing them. I worked closely with the hunters in my study area. The were responsible for more than half of the documented mortalities of my study animals. Of 19 I collared, I confirmed 16 deaths in a 18 month study. As I recall about 8 were killed by hound hunters, 2 or three by deer hunters, 2 or three by cars and one poisoning. And one by a giant anvil that fell off a cliff onto his head...    


Not too many coyotes die of "natural" causes.

[Mike Brown]

I came across a den about 20 years ago.  The pups were cute little booggers.  There were 4 of them.  They were in a hole in the ground.  They ran out and played around my feet like the puppies that they were.

I could not bring myself to killing them.  I did not tell the rancher or I might have not been able to hunt there again.

I would not fault someone from killing the pups but I could not do it. I would kill a full grown one in a heartbeat.

I think that we in south Tx have a higher loss rate than those who hunt up north.  I can not count the times that I read where the hunter up north leaves an animal over night, just in case.

Here in south Tx most nights are too warm to let something go over night.  And even during the day if you do not get to the animal in two hours or less you will be luckey to have anything left of your deer as the coyotes will eat it.

[vermonster13]

You can't leave a deer overnight here anymore either. There were coyotes on the gutpile from mine while I was dragging him out.

[WLThomas IV]

Smart thing to do is probably kill the whole litter but I don't think I could do it.

[Woodduck]

Originally posted by fxe:
Great pics! It says alot about  those on this site that it can be talked about without name calling and insults.

I agree. It's good we can examine a subject with mature behavior, here.

I'm glad I read all this. I ramble around a lot and will start to carry my Ruger pistol. I have a 40 pound Boykin Spaniel that I don't want to donate to their survival.

I found a dead one a few years ago, walking the train tracks(can't do that anymore, those CSX detectives are serious about the tracks security, these days).
A friend of mine killed one two years ago.
This year I saw two and a friend on a neighboring farm saw three, and killed one.
I will be killing all I see after thinking it out.
There were none and now they are increasing around here. Some folks think that dog hunters had some fenced in and they got out. Some folks say they are coming from Tenn.
I heard, if you want a fox mount, you better get one now; that the 'yotes will wipe them out.
I always left foxes alone, except I killed a rabid one; but I will start to hunt these 'yotes.

Thanks for the informative posts, Trad Gangers!

[Izzy]

Since this thread is still going as it should be because it is a big issue Id like to add a few things before I quit.This is just what some people ordered and will be interesting to follow.DEC has announced that they are in contract with SUNY college of environmental science and forestry in a 5 year study of yotes in NY state.According to the article that I read in NY state Outdoor News, Gordon Batcheller is the lead biologist in this project.Itll be very interesting to see the findings of this study.If poison and bounties never got it done it looks like were all gonna have to learn to hunt and live with them.As for food chain competition around here,the fisher is making a huge comeback and are known predators of yote pups in their dens.As far as the poll on killing the pups,I couldnt.Bad karma, and Ive never killed a spotted fawn because they were eating too many raspberries and morrels.  

[Woodduck]

Originally posted by jeff w:
What makes a deer or turkey 'worth' more than a coyote?

I eat deer and turkey, but not coyotes, They belong on the other side of the Mississippi River, from here.

Another thing, farmers here are having a tough time. Besides gas prices; corn and soybeans, and cotton, don't bring in the money that our tobacco, used to. Now the allotments on tobacco and price supports are gone on crops and tobacco is imported and farmers only get what the big tobacco companys want to give them. They put the tobacco warehouses out of business so nobody bids.
Deer and turkey are worth a lot to farmers who can lease out their land to turkey and deer hunters. Hunting is big money.
Coyotes seem like a problem that doesn't go away; and I don't think they belong in North Carolina. You are welcome to them.