Where do you draw the line..

[Inhimwelive]

Heres the backdrop I have a friend who is baiting which is illegal here..(but may not be if the new law goes through). He wants me to hunt with him but I will not if hes going to bait.. My question is where do you draw the line.. I feel many will say that I should turn him in but I have no intention of doing that.. I think in reality many people say they would turn anyone in but would they really? Would you turn in your father or brother for baiting? For me there is a gray area what about you?

[Tim Fishell]

I have the same dilemma.  My brother-in-law doesnt always do everything by the book but I tend to turn the other cheek because he is family.  But when he is with me he never does and I always tell him that when he gets caught he is on his own!!

[Tom Leemans]

Let him know how you feel, then let him think about it while you hunt elsewhere. Let him know it just isn't worth the trouble he might get in, or the friendship he may lose. Sometimes that's enough.

We have a husband and wife DNR team here in my county. The woman was our DNR rep for the safety course. I spoke with her at length about baiting. They've made many a case over illegal baiting. There's been much said about what is baiting and what isn't. In Illinois, it is considered baiting if it's edible. She said "I'm here to enforce the laws, and the laws are here to protect the game and hunting for everyone. I hunt too, and I don't want it ruined for me either."

[tim roberts]

"Guilty by association", has gotten a few folks the Death Penality.  
I'm not trying to stand on a soap box or anything like that, but a responsible hunter would/should probaly first warn him, this is wrong if you are going to continue to do it I will turn you in.  
The image of hunting has been in question for too long and is getting that way more and more.  We need to do everything possible to help promote a clean law abiding image.  that should start with policing or own.

[John Scifres]

I would not turn him in but I wouldn't hunt with him either.  A positive example may be your best bet here.  Let him know why you don't want to hunt with him.

[Inhimwelive]

Just to clarify I have let him know how I feel about it and that I wont hunt with him if he baits..

[woodchucker]

Personaly,I don't really have a problem with "baiting".....

People consider it totaly exceptable to hunt Bears over "bait".....

Why not Whitetails?????

People consider it totaly exceptable to hang a tree stand next to a corn field.....

People even plant "food plots" and hang stands next to them.....

In very dry areas people build ground blinds next to "watering holes".....

In Alaska,people hunt Brown Bears along the river during the "salmon run".....

Couldn't hanging a tree stand in a big White Oak than is heavy with acorns be condidered "hunting over bait".....

We are still hunting animals who's instinct to live is many times stronger than our ability to kill them.....

Yes My Friend.....It IS a VERY "gray area".....Only can decide what is right for YOU.....

May The Great Spirit Guide Your Arrows

[eagle24]

Originally posted by Inhimwelive:
Just to clarify I have let him know how I feel about it and that I wont hunt with him if he baits..

I think you did the right thing.  

[vermonster13]

Illegal is illegal. There is no gray area here. CWD makes it's way to Pennsylvania and you'll get a better understanding why baiting has become illegal in so many areas.

[T.J.]

I had a similar problem with my hunting buddy (also my gf's dad) He never pays attention to property boundries and always trespasses. I told him straight up, do what you want when you hunt alone and it's your problem if you get caught. But when I'm with you we'll obey the law. Period. Well he doesn't trespass anywhere anymore while hunting. Our hunting companionship is more important. But still does it for fishing and he fishes alone. He's one of my best friends, but I don't break the law and neither will anyone that is with me.

[Inhimwelive]

"Illegal is illegal. There is no gray area here" honestly vermonster13 I really doubt that..I doubt that you see all laws the same.. If so do you turn in your family members when they break trafic laws? My question was where do you draw the line? Few have answered that..When is the point you will turn someone in for breaking a law? And do you apply the same standard to family and friends and yourself? An additional note the P A game commission is trying to legalize baiting so they can profit from it. They want to sell baiting licenses.. I personnaly will not hunt with bait here even if it becomes legal. Its just not my cup of tea.

[vermonster13]

It is currently against the law to bait in PA. There is no gray area. He is breaking the law and you are fully aware of it. When it comes to hunting I draw the line real sharp, there are things that are legal that I won't do, and the illegal ones I don't stand for. If you knew me you'd know I mean what I say. Hunting doesn't need anymore negative representation. Though technically he isn't hunting if he shoots one over bait where it's illegal, he's poaching, but nonhunters don't ever see any difference when the stories are in the paper or on the news.

This is about hunting and that is the context we are discussing.

[woodchucker]

I'm sorry David but you are VERY WRONG!!!!!

Just what constitutes "baiting"????? Here's an example.....

A farmer leases his property to a "Club".....

The "Club" suggests that the farmer "chop" the outside edges of his corn fields (providing easy visability and clear shooting lanes) and leave the center of the field standing to "pick" later,after deer season is over.(providing "bait" to attract the deer)

This is clearly "baiting" even if the law chooses to see it as "the farmer's decision what to do with his crops"

The same with a "food plot".....

A "food plot" is planted to feed and attract deer, PERIOD!!!!! If you hunt over that food plot,YOU ARE BAITING regardless of what the law says!!!!!

In the Mid-West it is illegal to hunt ducks over a wheat field.....BUT if you flood that wheat field.....It's LEGAL!!!!! (?????    :confused:  ?????)

Baiting laws are so confussing.....There's ALOT of "gray area"!!!!!

[Wary Buck]

Vermonster is right.  The law is the law and you should either follow it to the letter, or work to change it if you think it needs changing.

I think it's incredible that we like to split hairs to rationalize our decisions to break laws or look the other way when we want to.  

Whether you associate yourself with a guilty party is just a test of your ethics and maturity.  I say no.  It sounds like TJ similarly took a stand and in the process changed a person's behavior.  Had he not taken a stand, he'd be guilty by association and the hunting partner would still be breaking the law.  

Whether you turn the lawbreaker in is up to you.  I've turned in several poachers myself because I believe if we don't police our own ranks, the slob hunters will accelerate the death of our sport.  And by the way, baiting (where illegal) DOES change the animals' behavior on neighboring properties and it does affect you.

[vermonster13]

A food plot remains year round and is not dependent on someone refilling a spreader. Leaving corn standing also doesn't concentrate the animals the same way. Naturally occurring feeding areas also provide food without human "help. Baiting tends to be in piles or very concentrated areas and has the deer get closer than they normally would feeding and makes transmitting disease between animals easier.

Also when you hunt oaks and such you are forced to design your plans around nature not create an area tailored to you.

I have no problem with anyone who hunts within their regions laws, but "rationalizing" illegal activities does nothing for hunting's image.

Do what your ethics guide you to do, but don't expect me to support you in an illegal approach to hunting.

[Smilingg]

Try telling a judge that you decided, though baiting is illegal, it is "right" for you. Explain your thoughts on "gray areas" as you pay a fine of hundreds of dollars or worse.

[MJB]

I gotta go with your first sentence .. That pretty much sums it up..

Heres the backdrop I have a friend who is baiting which is illegal here.

[fflintlock]

I gotta agree with most folks here. It is illegal, so it is what it is. I myself, would say, "see ya" and good luck. A bag of corn and a buck in the truck equal a lot off trouble and I got no trouble walking away from that.
 It seems to me "YOU" have a question that only "YOU" can answer. You loose your truck, your bow, your licences, your "real friends" and your money. You decide what you want to do and live with it.
I'm orig. from Pa. Carlisle area. They have a slogan up there, "SPORT"

Sportsman
Policing
Our
Ranks
Together

[MJB]

Jerald,
I'm about an hour from Carlisle, yep gotta agree SPORT    

     
 

Mike    

[vermonster13]

I like that patch!