problem dogs

[Bard1]

Ok, so my hunt last night was busted by a pair of dogs, and they did it to me again this morning.  This is in a rural farming area and I am sure they belong to someone, but they have no collars or tags.  They are crossing onto private property.  I am sure there are laws agains harassing wild life, though I don't know specifics.  I am thinking of driving around and seeing if I can find the owners and having a chat with them.  Any other ideas aside from shooting the dogs?  I have considered it, but if I really wanted to do that I have had more then enough chances.  
Derek
Derek

[ks_stickbow]

I bet most responses here will be shoot shovel shutup...

I am a dog person, but lived in an area were there are lots and lots of stray dogs and cats. I've come across aggrsive dogs before...which i dispatched. broke my heart...Once there were two labs..a big male and a small female...the big male tried to bite me and I shot him the female was a sweety, and took her to the local shelter.

it would suck if you shot some kids dog. You could probably tell by looking at the condtion of the dog if it is stray...things like is the coat shiny, is the dog ameciated, will it come if called (not charge but come), sit, stay...blah blah blah...if it is a pet catch them and call dog catcher...if not a pet dispatch them

just dont blame the dog...it's hunting too...blame the iresponsable owners

[bhannah]

Wow tough one. I don't think i could shoot a dog. But puting one in a shelter is just about the same. I think i would try to find the owners, they have to be close. If they don't respect your request to leash the dogs then I would call animal controll.

[Jeremy]

Touchy subject.  Growing up my dog was shot on two different occasions.  The little horney bugger kept breaking his leash then going out in the woods.  Didn't help that he looked kind of like a 'yote!  I can't remember my father getting mad about it.  I know I was sad (I was a wee little one at the time).

I was under orders from a landowner for the last two seasons to shoot two dogs on sight.  Their owners didn't do a thing to keep them on their property, the dogs were harassing wildlife AND the property owner's animals.  Animal control said they'd have to catch 'em in the act... flat out told the property owner to make sure the carcasses weren't found and to stop calling them!

[Molson]

If it's private property you're hunting, discuss this with the owner of the property first.  He lives there and will bear the brunt if they belong to a neighbor.  If everyone is in agreement that something must be done, DO NOT SHOOT THE DOGS WITH A BOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Use a gun, bury them, and say nothing more about it.

You wound a dog with a bow and you will bring all kinds of grief down on bowhunters.  There is no mistaking an arrow wound in a dog and no doubt it was caused by a hunter.  Use the same method any farmer or other property owner in the area would...a gun.

If it's on public land, do nothing at all.  Report it to the Division of Wildlife or other agency and leave it to them.

[draco]

Several years ago I dropped my wife off at a stand and I walked to another.Getting to a big clearing with the stand at a creek crossing on the far side,I saw two deer come thru the crossing at a hard run and pass me.Then 4 large dogs,looking like litter mates,came thru. I pulled out two Judos,thinking I could shoot close to them and give them a good scare. Seeing the movement they immediately came for me,and you could tell they were serious. I shot one at 18 yds. and the next at about 5 yds.,getting some penetration both times.Then they all ran off,and thankfully the arrows fell out. All I could think about was my wife was originally going to hunt that stand. I went back later with a varment call and a rifle,called them up and killed them all.Did`nt feel good about it,but it needed to be done. Now this year we have a bitch and 3 nearly grown pups running the deer where we hunt.It`s ruined several evening hunts. A sheriffs deputy aquaintance told me to drive around and look for the dogs at area residences and let him know where. If he can see them loose at the house he would press charges himself for unrestrained pets. I sure hope it works as I dont want to have to shoot anymore dogs.

[Aeronut]

I had a similar event a few years back.  I had caught two dogs running deer on our property on numerous occasions and had found several deer carcasses.  I knew who owned the dogs and talked to them on two different occasions with no results.  

I then contacted the game division and was told they could do nothing unless they caught the dogs in the act and recommended I contact the dogs owners.  I told them I'd been there and done that already.  I was then told that they did not have the manpower or time to pursue the issue.  

After two years of this I finally caught the dogs running a doe and two yearlings on my property right under my treestand.  I put an end to finding dead deer on my property.

Dennis

[pdk25]

I can understand that if a dog is menacing a person that it should be put down, but I really don't understand the mentality that a dog chasing a deer should be killed.  By that logic all of the hunters in the woods should be shot as well.  Are we really that afraid of a little competition or are we in danger of starving to death if we don't harvest a deer?

[jfish]

Wow,  how a difference of where you live or what you are used to puts a different spin on something? I noticed most everyone who has posted to this point is from a non-deer hound state.  This topic is a very heated one this year in Va.  The Game Dept has actually accepted the idea that there has to be something done, and they are taking a critical look at it this comeing year. I no longer run deer with hounds but did so for many years.  I gave it up roughly 10-15 years ago and will never go back.. With that said, even though I was once a "Hound Hunter" I have no patiences for someone else's dog missing up my hunt.  The Shoot Shovel Shutup practice is in no way legal here in Va, not saying I have done it but it does work. I think the debate on this issue will come down to one simple question. What is a hunter's (and landowner's)right?  Does a non- dog hunter or property owner who does not want dogs on their land or messing up their hunt have that right?  For me it's a no brainer.  YES, a landowner and or a hunter on private property who does not want dogs negatively impacting their hunt or activity should have that right.  However, although the number of folks who I think agree with this rationale has risen in resent years I am not sure they are as loud as the Dog Hunters.  I worry that the hound hunters tend to yell louder, make a bigger scene and unfortunately have a more organized voice just by the nature of their existence.   If you want some interesting reading do a search on some Va Boards. It tends to quickly become of heated debate, with name calling and threats posted.  It would not surprise me if this doesn't lead to some dangerous arguments in the field before it's settled.

[brmize]

pdk25 I can understand your feelings, and this is in no way meant to be an attack but Deer death by dog is a horrible death. These dogs still have the chase instinct but have never learned how to kill and generaly make a very poor job of it. They may actually catch and pull down a deer several times over the course of miles but being unsure as to how to go about killing it the deer gets up and the chase starts again until the deer can't go on and the dogs evenutally manage to get the job done. I am not trying to villify dogs, we are the ones who not only made them cheap imitations of wolves but we also let them breed indiscriminantly and them roam far and wide harrassing wildlife.

Brian

[Aeronut]

brmize states the facts exactly.  The dogs I wrote about earlier were that way and I would find patches of hair that would eventually lead to a dead deer and the deer would be uneaten.  I found deer of all ages this way, from fawn to full grown.  I tried all my options to remedy this situation.

I have no doubt that these dogs would have done the same to sheep or calves if they were near and was confronted by one of the dogs when all I had was a fishing pole.  I very seldom go afield without a sidearm now unless I am bowhunting.

Kansas has a law that forbids letting pets chase game and I am pretty sure that a landowner has the authority to dispatch a dog that is harrassing game or livestock on his land.  Most everyone I know will try to contact the owner about such actions but will not tolerate repeat offenses.

We are having this problem right now on the company land where I work.  The owner was notified but has taken no action.  I have had two of the last three hunts disrupted by his two dogs, one was this evening.  So, what is the cure??

Dennis

[Traxx]

We had the problem for yrs,at the ranch i grew up on.As was stated earlier,Most states have wildlife harrasment laws.The warden will issue a citation to the Dog owners,if they know who they belong to.Back in the 70's the warden fined the owners,if known,and then told us to shoot re offenders.Once dogs get a taste of the chase,n especially the kill,there is no stoppin them,short of Being Penned all the time.

[Wai]

Feral dogs are no better than coyotes.  Shoot them and be done with it.  The last thing you need is to be attacked by one.  Or worse, one of your kids being attacked by one.  Once they've gone feral, they're fair game.

[Doug Deese]

Talk to the land owner.  Talk to the people in the area. Talk to Fish and Game/Local animal control.  Ask F&G if video of the dogs in the act will get them out their.

You are not going to get a verbal/written green light to shoot the dogs from F&G or Animal Control.  You may get a non verbal greenish/yellow light if they think you have done your homework and the animals have crossed the imaginary line.

If it was me and I continued to see them acting as wild dogs and I had done my homework I would take them out.

I only say this because I have seen what happens when this gets out of hand.  In Okinawa Japan the stray dog/cats are everywhere and sick/diseased.  I was a Conservation Officer on Anderson AFB, Guam for a few months and I had a permit to shoot any (Boonie)stray Dog, (Boonie) stray cat that I saw roaming the jungle.  The stray dogs and cats are in great numbers on the island.  The dogs hunt in packs like wolves.  They will catch many deer and kill/eat a few and mutilate the rest leaving them lay half dead.  The cats have assisted the brown tree snake in the near extinction of most of the native birds on the island.  They devastated a group of Guam Rails that had been re-introduced in a small protected area on the base.

I saw dozens of Boonie dogs and cats while I was there with no intentions of killing them until one very rainy day in the jungle.  A pack of Boonie Dogs were using the rain because the guam deer hold up under bushes, deadfall and in small caves during bad weather.  The dogs are silent except when they communicate with each other like wolves.  When I saw the dogs in action and that they were just domestic dogs packed together I quickly changed my mind. I was on base in a bow hunting only area so I started hunting the dogs and I got two of them while they were killing two different deer.  We would find deer all over that had been killed(rear end, hind quarters ripped to pieces but not eaten).

When I was young I was walking down a RR track and witnessed my buddies farm dogs killing a cow in a farmers field.  I ran out there and yelled there names and threw rocks at them. They finally stopped and ran off.  The cow was in bad shape.  I ran up to my friends house a couple miles away and told my friend and his dad.  The farmer showed up later  with the dead cow and said it was worth at least $600.00 so how were we going to make this right.  My friends dad said I dont have the money but I will take care of the dogs if you want.  The farmer said O.K.  He went in the house got his 12 ga. and called the dogs into the front yard and shot them both right in front of the farmer.  The farmer got back in his truck and drove away.

Someone needs to be accountable for these dogs that roam wild or that are actually wild. Make the owners accountable and if that don't work (SSS)!    

All Im saying is that as soon as those animals are considered wild then the same species that allowed them to get that way(MAN) needs to correct the problem!!  and it looks like you are in the drivers seat on this one brother....AKbearb8

[Aeronut]

One other option you may try Derek is to try and trap them.  If you see them in a certain area more than once you might be able to trap at least one of them.  If I planned to take them to an animal shelter I would make sure to use a catch stick to remove them from the trap.

Dennis

[pdk25]

I guess everyone has to try to evaluate their true motives in this debate.  Is it really that we are concerned for the suffering of the poor deer?  Is it really that we are in fear of being attacked while hunting?  Or is it really, and I feel somewhat more likely, that we are afraid that our hunting is being negatively impacted.

[brmize]

Honestly, and I think Jeff and Dennis will back me up on this, our state(KS) has too many deer. I in no way begrudge coyotes, bobcats and heck even the cougars people "claim" to see in KS their share of the deer. However, dogs that kill indescriminately and cruelly are an introduced predator that is not only inefficient but destructive. That's just how I see it. Agree to disagree I guess.

Brian

[vermonster13]

In Vermont it is illegal to run deer with dogs. Dogs found doing so don't get to go to the pound, they are shot on site by wardens and hunters are encouraged to do the same. Doesn't matter what your motivation is, feral dogs are a destructive force as are feral cats. As said earlier it's human fault they are there and should be dealt with by us. Many native species pay the price for people not taking responsibility for their animals of many kinds. Look up the thread on feral horses for another kind of destruction being done in the southwest by animals abandoned generations ago and people getting all fuzzy over them now and not letting them be dealt with.

[Aeronut]

In my case Pat, I have had to deal with the aftermath of destructive dogs.  Growing up in a rural setting and helping tend cattle, sheep, and hogs with my family and friends I have had enough of picking up the remains of calves and sheep or putting down those that are still alive after a dog attack.  It is not a pretty sight and it is a costly matter to the farmer/rancher.

I know too the negative impact that free ranging dogs can have on wildlife and yes that does affect hunting.  Unless you have seen the results of this on a deer or calf you have no clue to the ferocity and violence of such an attack.

Like I said before, I will first contact the owner of the dogs involved in such happenings up to two times and call the game authorities and report it. If the owner refuses to correct the situation there is no other recourse.

I am in no way afraid of being attacked while out in the woods but one thing is sure.  When I am facing a snarling dog in the wild while holding nothing but a fishing pole the farthest thing from my mind is "aww, poor doggy".

Dennis

[Bonebuster]

The law in Michigan mirrors what Vermonster said.

Dogs running loose WILL negatively affect hunting in any area in which they roam. That alone IS reason enough to stop it.

I love dogs, they are far more trustworthy than most people.

If dogs are running amuck in your hunting area, its going to be up to you to stop them, because they certainly won`t do it on their own. Stop them however you must.

If it is illegal for you to use deadly force to stop them, then DEMAND that animal control does it for you. Its what you pay taxes for. If they tell you that they must catch the animals in the act, then you have no choice, as they will not stop on their own.

Sometimes what is legal is not right, and sometimes what is right is not legal.