Special Season/Special Rules for Traditional bow

[Scott J. Williams]

It has come to my attention that there is a movement, ever so small, toward making the request for a "Traditional" bow season, or license in a few "Western States".  I must say it sounds appealing to me.

One proposal would be for the applicants to wave all rights to firearms hunting for big and small game for the year.  They would in turn be provided with a "traditional archers" License that would be good for all hunting for that year.  

Along with this would be the promise to provide a longer season, with some hunting being provided in selected areas, without the competition of compound bows, in-line muzzle loaders, or hig powered rifles.  The author also stated that traditional bowhunters might be willing to pay a little more for this opportunity.

The restrictions would be, wooden bows, composite, self bows, and longbows of each design, no metal risers, no aluminum or carbon arrows, wood being the only accepted projectile.  

While I shoot aluminum arrows and carbon most of the time, I personally would not have a problem this restriction.  

The second plan being floated about is a "primitive weapons season"  in this season, you would be allowed to use bows with the above restrictions, but you would be sharing the woods with the more traditional muzzle loaders, no scopes, just flint lock, and traditional percussion cap.  

There can be no argument that so called "Primitive Weapons" seasons have become a real joke.  The compound is now a weapon that can and does kill at 50 - 60 yards, a distance that was once considered ideal for traditional muzzle loaders.  With the new in-line muzzle loaders, distances of 120- 175 yards are not out of the norm.  The kill ratios have been approaching that of modern firearms, and Game departments have been forced to take that into consideration when making recommedations on bag limits and seasons.

I guess I am concerned because we are lumped in with those modern archers and their gear.  We are still in the 5-10 percent success rates, and our numbers are vastly inferior.  If this is what it takes to protect our method of hunting, maybe it is time.

I have stated what I think, I am curious to see if there are a number of "hard core" traditional bowhunters who would also be willing to pay a little more, change some of their equipment choices, work toward making this a reality in their state, and to show the non-hunting public that our way is not easy, but a noble method showing the utmost respect for  or a given, but extremely hard work.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

The second plan being floated about is a "primitive weapons season"  in this season, you would be allowed to use bows with the above restrictions, but you would be sharing the woods with the more traditional muzzle loaders, no scopes, just flint lock, and traditional percussion cap.  

I have to admit I find it ironic that some traditional bowhunters don't want to share the woods with compound users based on their perceived effectiveness, but don't mind sidelock muzzleloaders, which are more efficient than compound bows.

Past that, I can't speak to western states, because I don't live there. But I see no reason for something like this in Illinois.

[Molson]

I agree with Jason as far as Ohio goes.  We have it pretty good as bowhunters.  We all share the woods together for the full four months, trad, compound, crossbow.  I'm not happy about sharing the woods with crossbow guys, but that has more to do with the way they act than it does their weapon.

I don't have any experience out west, but it does seem that seasons and tags issued are closely related to success rates.  If you lack opportunities or season length due to a large number of "modern" hunters, it couldn't hurt to lobby for an extended traditional season or traditional only areas.

[SteveB]

No to such a special season!!!!!!!!!!

A line will be drawn on equipment allowed that will make only a few happy - regardless of its restrictions or lack of them.

It will only serve to divide hunters further - nothing positive I can see.

Steve

[BigCnyn]

I share the woods and camp with compound shooters. The Crossbow guys have to hunt in the general seasons.. I have it pretty good, in Idaho, multiple hunts during the year for "Archers", so If I want to get snobby, I can put in for a archery hunt. I dont see a reason to divide again.. They tried it with "traditional muzzleloading", dont see that it worked.

[woodchucker]

Sorry, Don't want any part of it.....  

[vermonster13]

Something very similar to this was tried once in Colorado already. It took them 10 years to recover. It sounds good on paper to those it would benefit. Problems are Traditional Tackle users are such a small minority it would put us out there and sever any support we would get from other style archery hunters so the anti's would eat us alive and those folks would probably help them do it. We already get tagged with being elitest and we struggle to prove our equipment is effective in the taking of big game as it is and it isn't even allowed to be used in many countries. Using ineffectiveness as a reason as to why we need a separate season just for us just doesn't sit well with me.

[Angus]

I think I'm going to echo Vermontster's sentiments here-not that we have a population of deer here in CA  anyway!

[woodchucker]

Why do we need "special" seasons?????

I do what I do because I want to.....Not because I consider myself "special".....

I like old bows,and old guns.....This year I used my old 1967 Bear Grizzly to kill my spikehorn.

I also hunt during the modern firearms season.....I usually carry my old 16ga. Ithaca "Deerslayer". Smooth bore,iron sights,she'll drive tacks at 100 yards but most of my shots are around 40-50.

My point is this.....when you have "special" seasons,you have to many people "trying" to be "special".

Just like QDM.....Years ago,the guys who hunted the hardest regularly killed the biggest bucks,without any help from the game depts. antler restrictions and QDM "plan".

[Alex.B]

I wouldn't support that, but would definitely  vote for a special season for scoped, in-line, realtree "muzzleloaders".... all year...... on the moon!!!

[tomh]

I would not support that, and especially would not waive my right to take an animal with a gun. Hunting with a gun is anti climactic and not fun like bowhunting, but i still want the ability to do it if i need to make meat.

[Brian Krebs]

This is such a political hot potato!

I do not believe in safety in numbers; I believe in safety in ideology; but then I have been diagnosed as an 'incurable idealist'.

 I would 'give up' my ~any weapon~ hunts here in Idaho; to have an additional season with my bow.

 In 'my' unit; there are elk pouring over the divide from Montana- each winter to here in Idaho; and the fish and game says they are a problem.

 The 'A' tag we have allows us to hunt from August first to the end of September with 'any weapon' for elk in certain areas in and around crops. This is an antlerless only hunt. The period from August  30th to September 30th overlaps the regular bow hunt. I do not like hunting for elk with a bow when there are people shooting at elk: with a gun. I think it is a dangerous thing; and it is irresponsible.

 The elk though are- according to the fish and game - high enough in population that it is biologically OK.

 In this zone; there is a December hunt; it is not in this unit; and I have often driven down my driveway; had to stop for elk eating my horse hay; and then drive over 30 miles to get to where it is legal to hunt them with my bow.

 Yet- the fish and game has now a controlled hunt for any weapon- in the unit I live in- for the first week of December ( 10 days). For antlerless elk- with a 150 permit level limit.

 That could have been a month long hunt with bows; but the 'gun lobby' prevented that from happening.And the 'bow lobby' did nothing to stop it.

 According to fish and game; it would be biologically OK for a bow hunt- in all of December- here in this unit for 'cow' elk.

 But there were not enough bowhunters arguing to make that  happen.

 I would love to see this unit open for traditional bows only for the month of December.
 But without numbers or people supporting it - I just don't see it happening.
 Even with a big state bowhunting organization.
 

 It is not legal to hunt elk in December in this unit with any bow; to make it legal to hunt with a traditional bow- would not make an impact on the elk herd; or do anything negative.

 But the state bowhunting organization is opposed to traditional only hunts.

 WE are at the mercy of the non traditional bowhunters. If they set up proficiency tests they could easily pass- and we failed at passing the tests: it could make us look bad. They could do it on purpose. They could decide WE are bad for bowhunting; and sacrifice us in an attempt to show their superior bow shooting 'skills'.

 AND its already on a small scale: been suggested.

So; we have really lost traditional bowhunting already in this state; as we are not respected for our bows; and we are at the mercy of others.

 I would like a separate season; I would give up my any weapon hunts - but the compound/cam bow people will not. They rule the roost; and what they say counts more.

 Problem is; we remain at their mercy. I do not like that position; and I don't believe any of us should.

REMEMBER : THE FIRST ANTI-BOWHUNTERS IN THIS COUNTRY WERE RIFLE HUNTERS - NOT ANTI-HUNTERS!

 And today; if your hearing someone talk about 'deer running around with arrows sticking out of them' - chances are they are rifle- or compound bow- hunters: not the general public or anti-hunters!

 WE are in a pickle. And it is a result of not sticking to an ideology about traditional bowhunting. IMHO

Setting up a hunt as suggested at the beginning of this post would do that. So; I am for it.

[Molson]

Obviously Brian Krebs carries a very large hammer 'cause he nailed it!        

I'm certain there aren't too many who would pass up an opportunity to hunt a "Traditional Only" area or season if it existed.

I never could understand why anyone thinks gun hunters, compound hunters, or crossbow hunters care one bit about preserving or providing opportunity for us.  Quite the opposite.

[Alex.B]

thinking it through ( hard for me sometimes   )
Brian Krebs does carry a very large hammer, because he sure changed my angle of view on this
thanks Brian... and Molson

[et]

I was pretty excited when Idaho defined traditional archery and have been rather disappointed in the lack of a season. Unlike most compound shooters the traditionalist I talk to are willing to forgo –any weapon- hunts and make other sacrifices to be able to maintain hunting seasons or perhaps even increase our days in the field. I don’t think that anything will really happen until F@G is forced to shorten the archery season because of harvest rates and game population.
If F@G does shorten the season I will be all for arguing that the traditional archers should not have to suffer the consequences of the ever extending “effective” range of the compound hunters. A friend of mine is a P@Y measurer and it has been his experience that the average distance has increased significantly over the last decade.(at least %50)
In the mean time I hope that we can strengthen ITB so that we will have a base to lobby from when the day comes that further reductions in hunting opportunity become a reality.

Back East it seems that the game is abundant to the point of almost being a nuisance (white tail deer) and access to game is the challenge the average hunter faces. In the West we are facing a greater demand for game then our current game population can sustain. This demand is leading to more draw only hunts and the potential of people’s choice of weapon to negatively impact their fellow hunter’s opportunity to hunt.

I am all for a separate season for traditional archery. I do have the concern that we would be “ripe for the picking” by anti’s but the vast majority of non hunters react favorably to traditional hunters. Even non hunters have a pretty well developed sense of fair chase.
et

[Scott J. Williams]

I don't think that it is a given that we would be "ripe for the picking".  It seems that the few who agree with me on this issue are the people who hunt almost totally with a stickbow,  and the people that come down on the other side are people who hunt different seasons and different ways, I have no beef with that, however my hunting tool is more challenging, takes more effort, and has a shorter range.

I think it is the right time to present this issue to game departments, because as stated so well above, we are going have to contend with lower bag limits and fewer days afield.  If we continue to blindly, and totally continue to hitch our wagon to the modern bowhunters we will suffer for an afliction that was brought about by "technology", which results are not our fault.  

It was stick and string hunters who got the seasons we enjoy,  I for one am not ready to give it away, not without a fight.  It seems that the crowd that wanted expandable broadheads raised enough hell to get what they wanted,  the crossbow people raised enough hell to get what they wanted, we have the best argument of all.  We have a lighter empact on game numbers, we are seeking to have more hunter days afield, and most traditional hunters I have spoken to are willing to pay a little more for the right to do so.  

More hunter days is the montra, in as undistrubed areas as possible, without the competition with muzzle loaders, compounds, or crossbows. With all the types of tools being used and competing for time afield, we have the softest impact, a factor that should not be overlooked.

[MI_Bowhunter]

Coming from a compound background I don't mind sharing a season.   We're pretty lucky here.  We can bowhunt from Oct 1 through Jan 1.  Nov 15-30 is gun season but you can use a bow as long as you follow the gun rules for hunters orange etc.  For a hunter like me that can only get out for a few weekends a year, maybe a long weekend,  that's pretty awesome.

I don't want to see any legislation that would furthur subdivide the hunting seasons.  A restricted season could prevent me from hunting with my dad and my hunting buddies who all use compounds.  That certainly would put a damper on deer camp.  I love hunting with trad gear but If it meant losing hunting opportunities with my father and best friends, I'd go back to hunting with a wheel bow.   For me those experiences are why I hunt and are more important then the equipment I use.

I don't know what its like in other states, I've only lived and hunted here in MI so I won't presume to know what's best elsewhere.  For me, here in MI, I don't want it.

[BigCnyn]

I again agree no separation of archers. I don't agree with the crossbow deal, but Idaho has them hunt during the general any weapon season, unless they have a handicap permit, let those folks hunt legally anyway the can!! I think that's what the outdoor experience is to me. If I have to choose what I hunt with, or who I hunt with, I will choose my 2 kids and my father, I have way more fun with my family around me..

[et]

BigCnyn,
The way I would hope to see it, there would be Trad hunts we pay extra for(like the archery stamp)and have to follow trad regs. One could still hunt with his compond friends but the any weapon would go a way. I will be surprised if we still have the any weapon season in 5 years anyway.
I sure do hear you about the value of hunting with family.
et

[BigCnyn]

why do I have to pay extra for? I have lost goose pits, duck blinds, private land I built, dug to the I can PAY EXTRA ,, now!!" I hunt in the state I buy my "ARCHERY PERMIT" and now I have to pay more... Just let me hunt...