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Author Topic: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?  (Read 4966 times)

Offline vermonster13

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So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« on: November 30, 2007, 07:08:00 PM »
Here is what those who oppose us are doing. Consolidating!

 Consolidated Animal Rights Movement is Sportsmen's Nightmare
HSUS growth is threat to sportsmen
November 28, 2007 (National)

In a precisely-calculated effort, the Humane Society of the United States is assuming control of the animal rights movement’s political agenda. In doing so, it becomes an even greater threat to conservation and hunters’ rights.

Wayne Pacelle, the mastermind behind HSUS, recently told the Chronicle of Philanthropy that his organization may soon merge with at least three unnamed animal rights organizations. The HSUS calls itself a mainstream animal charity, but the growing organization has already joined forces with groups that push a none-too-conventional anti-hunting, anti-trapping agenda.

“The HSUS is playing up a mainstream reputation in hopes of becoming the primary mouthpiece for the animal rights movement,” said USSA President Bud Pidgeon. “It is not difficult to convince a smaller group to unite with a multi-million dollar organization that will push its political agenda - be it to end hunting or eliminate animal research. Sportsmen will no-doubt see HSUS continue to grow in this way.”

Power in Numbers

By absorbing the other groups, HSUS adds to its membership and bank accounts, which gives it even more political muscle. The group now has 10.5 million members or supporters, up from 7.4 million five years ago.

When Pacelle took control of HSUS in 2004, he realized the way to advance his political agenda was to develop an even larger following of animal activists. It was not by chance that HSUS assumed control of the Fund for Animals in 2005 and the Doris Day Animal League in 2006. It was all part of a plan to make HSUS the powerful and efficient mouthpiece for the animal rights movement.

Bank On It

With a staggering $112-million budget, a new legislative arm and a political action committee to boot, HSUS definitely has lawmakers’ attention. The group spent $2.5 million this year to push state and federal animal rights legislation. Last year, for the first time, it got directly involved in candidate elections and spent $600,000 to back or oppose nominees based on their animal-related voting history.

To remain in control of the animal rights movement, HSUS plans to continue its financial development. In fact, it will soon begin a five year, $100-million fund-raising effort that will put its budget well over $200 million!

Looks Can Be Deceiving

Sportsmen know the HSUS is a political machine that campaigns to ban hunting.

The HSUS tries to sell itself as a group with mainstream goals, but if that were truly that case, would it merge with animal rights organizations that stigmatize and try to prohibit hunting and trapping?

For example, it led the effort to bulldoze dove hunting via the ballot box in Michigan, and it championed a recent bear hunting ban in New Jersey.

Those and dozens of other overt attacks on hunting are not the only threats HSUS poses to sportsmen. It has also plotted no-holds-barred campaigns that will have subtle, yet equally devastating, impacts on outdoor sports.

Sportsmen who breed and raise hunting dogs are being caught up in proposals that HSUS advocates as efforts to wipe out large-scale, abusive dog breeders. At the same time, the anti’s are fanning a public frenzy against animal fighting and lobbying for legislation that could make sportsmen who hunt with dogs vulnerable to animal cruelty charges. For instance, if a dog breaks point and grabs a pheasant the hunter could be charged with an act of animal cruelty. The USSA Sporting Dog Defense Coalition is on call to make sure hunters’ rights are protected.

The Future’s In Your Hands

American sportsmen have a savvy foe that is influential in politics and the media. It is coordinating attacks against hunting and all animal use and will not be an easy opponent to defeat.

Let this message ignite your passion for hunting. Help the USSA defeat legal and legislative attacks by this anti-hunting giant and others within the movement.

Copied from the USSA website.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline Gurn

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 07:30:00 PM »
All the more reason for us to find groups who have a voice, and donate!! I guess Microsoft is dumping lots of $$ in the HSUS. Thanks Bill.   We also need to stick together. Traditional, compound, crossbow,firearm. Stll hunting, drive, dogs. We need each other more than ever!!
Just because it don't work for you, don't mean it don't.

Offline tomh

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 12:26:00 AM »
Forgive my ignorance, but I would like to know what groups speak for us and are worthy of our support?
Thanks. I want to do my part.

Offline Gurn

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 02:02:00 AM »
Well the NRA for one, and there are alot others.
I can tell you the HSUS hates the NRA.

Heres two articles and there are more.

  http://www.hsus.org/farm/news/pressrel/animals_win_arizona_proposition_204.html


 http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/press_releases/maryland_rejects_75000_offer_to_cancel_bear_hunt.html
Just because it don't work for you, don't mean it don't.

Offline laddy

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 02:22:00 AM »
I have never met a nonhunter that was not impressed with my self limited hunting methods. Also, most of these nonhunters were wilderness freaks like me.  I think if hunters proved they were pro environment and more publicly concerned about the health and welfare of all things wild and free, we would have less to worry about from the general public.  Showing a respectful attitude wouldn't hurt either.  This is not a political thing I know many democrats that hunt and fish, and like anybody else they have the same concerns about wacky antihunters.

Offline tomh

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 04:33:00 AM »
I almost asked what groups besides the NRA. WHat I can't stand about the NRA is they take your money and then use it to keep on producing and mailing and mailing and mailing more requests for money. I support Gunowners of America, because they seem to not waste money on mass mailings that get tossed.

I would like to support pro hunting organizations that care about the environment and keeping hunting alive, and spend the great majority of donated funds  for the environment and keeping hunting alive.

I am not trying to turn this into a NRA bashing thread, just want to know from others positive experiences if there are other worthy groups I could check out.

I have taken the step of joining my state traditional bowhunting organization, and am considering joining the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.

I am going to check out the USSA website as soon as I post this.    :)

Offline Aeronut

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 11:47:00 AM »
tomh,
Not saying you're bashing the NRA because I have gotten the mailings too.  Like you said, they started to deluge me with mailing and invitations to join.  I sent a reply and informed them I was already a member and just asked to be taken off their mailing list.  Seemed to work because I rarely get solicitations from them for anything but pertinent issues.  I may not agree totally with all the workings of the NRA but they are the strongest voice the hunter has and that is why the anti's hate them so much.

I just wonder what kind of letters the HSUS and PETA orgnizations send out to members and contributors crying that they need more money to fight the cruel hunters.  I have talked to more than a few people that think a hunter will shoot any animal on sight, even their pets, because of the BS that HSUS & PETA have been spouting.

Whatever organization you join there will be mailings asking for more donations.  The membership dues alone cannot cover all the costs to fight the untruths and frivilous lawsuits.

Dennis

Offline Molson

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 05:13:00 PM »
Whether you like everything they do or not, membership in the NRA is mandatory if you value your hunting rights and your rights as a free citizen.
"The old ways will work in the future, but the new ways have never worked in the past."

Online Al Dente

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 07:50:00 PM »
You can start by joining your local and state organizations.  It's these grassroots efforts that fight the fight everyday for you.  Pending local and state legislation that could affect your hunting priviledges get introduced year 'round.  This your first line of defense.

Next comes the national groups, NRA, RMEF, FNAWS, DU, PF, QU, TU, SCI, P&Y, B&C, etc...

Remember, it's one thing to "donate" your 20 bucks to join, and that's great, but it also helps if you get involved too.
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New York Bowhunters, Inc.
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Offline et

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 09:34:00 PM »
Yes,
 HSUS is doing everything it can to go main stream and they have a message (veiled) but what is ours? Big tent with out a pole is a big pile of fabric. Are we going to be proactive or reactive?  The very garbage that Areonut  refers too,  the big tent does a lousy job of refuting because it refuses to address the issues and remains as narrow minded as the enemy. I do as Al Dente and join my local groups and do get involved. This Chicken Little does believe that we are getting out maneuvered at most turns. Fortunately the majority of the public is brighter then either side will give them credit for.

et

Offline laddy

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 10:00:00 PM »
I believe the first and second amendments are the power of the people.  What I fear is it seems that the news media is being centrally controlled, I wonder what would happen if someone flipped the switch on hunting rights in the media now versus 30 years ago.  "New World Order" and globalization issues are more mainstream media these days, the not knowing how a media battle would workout, makes me a bit nervous for our personal rights.

Offline HNTN4ELK

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2007, 09:42:00 PM »
Well, this kind of makes a trad only season discussion a bit, well, frivilous don't you think?

If you want to be able to continue to hunt with any weapon and means, join and participate in your local, state and national groups.

NRA, DU, RMEF, TU, FNAWS, NWTF, USSA, and the state groups for your bowhunting and firearms hunting seasons.

Not to be political, but before voting, checking where your favorite candidate stands on the 2nd Amendment, next to the 1st--Freedom of Speech, it is pretty high up there.

Use your gun closet and bow rack for a gut check..the rest is window dressing...if we cannot go hunting, we will not be able to go anywhere...

Garo

Offline tomh

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 03:19:00 AM »
HNTN4ELK, well said on all points. The nanny staters, would deny us all weapons and severely limit outdoor pursuits.

The 2nd amendment is the one that guarantees the others.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2007, 10:13:00 AM »
The faults of the NRA be what they may are still out weighed by the resolve they show in fighting for our rights. Also the NRA does fight for bowhunting also and has done so several times in the recent years.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline Molson

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2007, 01:49:00 PM »
"Big Tent without a Pole".  Right on ET.  We're so quick to point out our dislikes and the faults of groups and people that fight for us.  

Meanwhile, the animal rights and anti-gun groups misrepresent themselves, play on the emotions of the uninformed, and outright lie to get their money and support.

We have nothing but the truth to fight with which puts us at quite a disadvantage.  There is only one way to speak the truth, but unlimited ways to spin it.
"The old ways will work in the future, but the new ways have never worked in the past."

Offline Alex.B

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2007, 02:16:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Molson:
 
Meanwhile, the animal rights and anti-gun groups misrepresent themselves, play on the emotions of the uninformed, and outright lie to get their money and support.
 
And pro-gun groups, well at least the nra, do exactly the same thing   :)
One does not: the American Hunters and Shooters Association
tgmm, tanj, compton, bha

Offline laddy

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2007, 03:37:00 PM »
I would have to agree with Alex B. to a degree.  There does seem to be extremely partisan fear mongering in some circles.  However, in the upper midwest some of the best work done on behalf of the hunter has been from democrats.  As far any politician goes, I do not believe one can judge them for what they say.  Take a closer look and judge them for what they do.  It is quite often different.  One question, what good are our bows if we have no place to hunt?  I feel we are often pawns in a larger political game, sometimes the NRA seems to be part of that.  I flat out do not trust the Counsel on Foreign Relations, the TRilateral Commission, or the Bilderberg Group. They are not an elected wing of the government, but they make their influence everywhere.  They support the Bush family and the Clintons, we tend to judge our security left and right, depending on our preference.  Somehow it seems there is a bigger picture that we never hear about on the news and I don't really believe our hunting rights are all that big of a deal to them.  As long as some crazy doesn't shoot someone like the Regan, Brady shooting.  That one got us the Brady bill.

Offline Molson

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2007, 05:29:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Alex.B:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Molson:
 
Meanwhile, the animal rights and anti-gun groups misrepresent themselves, play on the emotions of the uninformed, and outright lie to get their money and support.
 
And pro-gun groups, well at least the nra, do exactly the same thing      :)    
One does not: the American Hunters and Shooters Association [/b]
See what I mean?!!!  You might want to do a little research about AHSA and be extra careful of an organization who AGGRESSIVELY seeks to smear and discredit the largest, most proactive, most effective gun and hunting rights organization in our Country.  

Gun Control and Animal Rights activists wear many hats.
"The old ways will work in the future, but the new ways have never worked in the past."

Offline Gurn

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2007, 08:11:00 PM »
A little info for ya about the American Hunters and Shooters Association, you decide?

 http://www.gunlawnews.org/asha.html
Just because it don't work for you, don't mean it don't.

Offline Gurn

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Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2007, 09:28:00 PM »
Quote
Gun Control and Animal Rights activists wear many hats.  
Yes, and you have to hand it to them. They become more infiltrated and camouflaged every day.
They have worked very hard at it, and you have to give credit where credit due. Theres one way I use to discern, although I'm sure theres many others. When I write to them and there response is full of words like, "reasonable gun laws" or "hunting firearms" especialy in conjunction with the 2nd amendment. These phrases are dead givaways that they do not support the 2nd amendment. As many times as I have read it, I can't find hunting or "hunting firearmes" in the text. Once you have convinced gunowners that this is all about hunting firearms, then you leave it at the full discretion of whoevers in at the time to determine what they feel is appropriate. As we have seen in the past, a good number of the law makers have little or no knowledge of firearms or hunting, and only vote for or introduce laws that reflect what there told to by those who donate to them.
Just because it don't work for you, don't mean it don't.

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