INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?  (Read 5938 times)

Offline KodiakBob

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 238
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2007, 05:05:00 AM »
Yes other user throw trash, but as a backpacker I know many hikers and packers who feel that it is dangerous to go out into the woods during hunting season. When they do go they get more disturbed when they find spent shotgun shells, and trashed targets shot up signs and trail markers. The "orange army" is gonna stop hunting long before the antis do.

Offline laddy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 497
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2007, 05:44:00 AM »
After reading this thread over and over, I have come up with my conclussion; that we could make friends with gun hunters easier than with nonhunters, but we should do everything we can to make friends with as many nonhunters as possible on our own, without waiting for superman to sweep in and save the day. traditional hunters are a good bunch of people, we should not be afraid to speak for ourselves when ever possible.

Offline tim roberts

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1460
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2007, 11:50:00 AM »
Quote:
Dick Cabela, the President of Remington and many other sporting industry notables are on the USSA board.

Dale,
While your post and the post of others were very well presented, thoughtout, etc.....These folks, and many others like them have an adgenda.  That adgenda is to make money!  That adgenda is not stopped by promoting and selling so-called "hunting items" that seriously hurt hunting.  
The youth thing.......While viewed by what looks as a majority of hunters, I am not so sure that is a good thing, and could ultimately come back and bite hunting.
Just a couple of reasons why I look at this this way.  This was promoted and passed here in Utah.
During the promotion part of the process, this was touted as a way to sell more tags and licesenses, funny thing, Utah is capped on most of its big game opportunities.  This year Utah had a record 5 or 6 hunting accidents, 2 or 3 were fatilities, and 2 involved youth under 16.
While it may never come out, there is an increased possiblity that the accidents involving adults were not caused by the adult paying attention to the youth, and not what they was supposed to.
Again, the adgenda behind all this is sales.....Sales for Remington from the new youth model guns, and sales for Cabela's in the form of accessories, and anything else they can market.  Hunting for these folks is away to make money, first and a passtime second!
We have laws in most States about minimum age for sex, driving, and various other things.  These laws are there because of the mentality of youth.  Hunting has the same types of finality as sex, and other things (accidents while driving, death, pregency, etc.), and should be included in the same minimum age restrictions.  
Sorry to disagree with most of you on here about this, but I for one, do not belive that "United we Stand, Divided we Fall" is the best approach to this problem.  Nor do I think that we need to be a "group" either.  
We do need to be able to tell the Truths about bowhunting, minimum impact for the amount of time in the field, if done properly a lot of anti's will never know there is a bowhunter around, good for management, due to the low impact, this list can go on a long ways, but I have probally lost a few due to length.
So.........
Tim

TGMM Family of the Bow

I guess if we run into the bear that is making these tracks, we oughta just get off the trail.......He seems to like it!  
My good friend Rudy Bonser, while hunting elk up Indian Creek.

Offline laddy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 497
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2007, 04:28:00 AM »
I am a canoeist, in canoe areas of the north slob hunters are also slob fishermen and campers with an easily identifiable lack of respect for the splendid places we canoeists play.  I must admit that I have met many nonhunters that had no opinions about bowhunting.  After i explain to them the difference between traditional bowhunting versus what they may or may not think hunters do in the field I have never gotten a negative response.  They do tend to defend Walt Disney Corp. which I think has done more damage than any of the Illuminati companies.  they maybe are getting by because of their republican stature, but they are a profit engine that will play any card for profit.

Offline Brian Krebs

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2117
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2007, 02:24:00 AM »
After driving 30 miles to get accross the river and hunt elk yesterday in the dark...then returning home; I found some 40 plus elk and deer-- in my pasture...and some deer.
 There were nearly a hundred elk walking around in sight; and there was a car stopped taking pictures.
 I cannot describe how it feels to hunt for elk all day- and come home to find them in my pasture; and mentioned that to the photographers.
 They were anti-hunters and scoffed me.

I turned and stared at the elk and deer; and said- "yep- and everyone of them knows right where they were- when Bambi's mother died".

 made me laugh anyway

  Walt did us no favors..

  :D    :archer:
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Offline DaleinOhio

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 94
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2007, 12:41:00 AM »
Tim,

I just saw your post.  Sorry about the late reply.  But your points are well-made.  Having met and spoken with Mr. Cabela quite a few times, I know he is no dummy.  He knows that the more people who hunt, the more money he will make.  As for the Pres. of Remington, he came on board after I resigned and went back to teaching.  But I am sure he knows the same thing as Mr. Cabela.  However, I am 100% positive that folks like the Cabelas have the good of the sport in mind ahead of their own gain when it comes to their activism and especially their participation in organizations like the USSA.  Just my opinion from someone who has seen how things go on from the inside.

As for the Families Afield initiatives, like the one that passed there in Utah, well I see your point there and share it to a certain degree.  My wife and I just had a son in September, our first.  And even though Ohio is a Families Afield state, I plan to make him wait until he is at least 10 to actually pull the trigger or loose an arrow at a live animal.  Why?  Because it is my personal belief that a young person can't fully comprehend the gravity of what he or she is doing until at least that age.  Heck, when he comes hunting with me, I'll be watching him and if he doesn't seem ready, I may make him wait longer if I don't see the maturity in him that I think it takes.  I see so many reports of 4 year olds and 7 year olds killing bears and four deer in a day, etc.  And I am revolted because that, to me, is just a father or mother stroking their own ego.  But my point, and I do have one, is that it is MY CHOICE AS MY SON'S PARENT, not the choice of a state legislature, the members of which have never set foot off a park path, much less actually hunted.  That is what Families Afield did, it gave the parents the opportunity to make the choice of when their kids hunt or don't hunt.  AS for safety, the Families Afield laws are very specific as to safety.  Young hunters must be accompanied by an adult, within arm's reach, in many states.  And there are other restrictions.  It's sad that youth were involved in the accidents in your state, but the statistics (available on the USSA website) find that the safest hunter in the woods is the adult-supervised young hunter.  Sadly, there are unscrupulous adults who break these rules and do not keep an eye on their youth.  It happens in every state.  

Yes, the USSA, SCI and others involved tout it as a way to save hunting by putting more hunters in the field.  But I disagree with you there.  We have to keep as many people coming into the sport as possible in the hopes that we help create lifelong hunters who will help protect it in the future.  How many people do you know who hunted once upon a time and just quit going?  This will happen to a lot of people.  We have to keep the young people coming in and getting hooked so they will be lifelong hunters and protectors of the sport.

And you know, the folks at USSA, SCI, etc know that they would get the hunting industry behind them by playing up the fact that Families Afield gets more hunters into the woods and thus into the stores.  It takes money to fight the Humane Society of the United States and their almost unlimited war chest of funds used to fight hunting, trapping, fishing, etc.  And frankly companies like Cabela's, Remington, The Sportsmen's Guide, etc have it and are willing to share it for that reason.

And make no mistake, the Anti's like the Humane Society of the United Stated and PETA, etc don't care if they EVER see a bowhunter in the woods.  They hate the idea of bowhunting, and all hunting.  And they are sneaky about how they go about killing hunting, just look at what they did to ban dove hunting in Michigan.  As soon as they won that fight, they moved on to try to ban bear hunting in Michigan.  I am leary of the United We Stand and Divided We Fall theory, too.  But being in the trenches fighting what the anti's do day in and day out like I did opened my eyes and when it comes to hunting and the outdoor sports, there is strength in numbers.  Even though I made a career change, I still give the USSA my money and volunteer in their Trailblazer youth programs.

Good post, Tim...I enjoy these honest exchanges.  We have to think for ourselves as hunters and hearing what others have to say is always valuable.
"So much do the savages esteem the wood of this tree for the purpose of making their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it."  -- Meriweather Lewis' description of the Osage Orange tree in a letter sent to Thomas Jefferson.

Offline tim roberts

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1460
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2007, 01:17:00 PM »
Dale,

Honest exchanges, such as this are refreshing, Thank you!
Maybe I am just playing devils advocate here, but again I have to be in somewhat of a disagreement with you on some of your points.  When I, and many others were kids we had to wait till the magical age of 12 to hunt small game, and 16 to hunt large game.  Getting to those bench marks was a paying of dues, so to speak.  as a kid I spent all the time I could fishing, trapping, and hunting what I could with a BB and pellet gun, and a green Bear fiberglass bow,  honing woodsmanship, tracking skills and various other things because it meant something to be able to show these skills when needed.  All of this has helped to turn me towards being very passionate about hunting, the animals I persue, and I have a deep respect towards the whole process.  
By just letting youth hunt because we need more hunters afield, we are loosing the respect and passion, that will need to be there, the day the big show down with the anti's happens.  With opportunity being cut almost daily in some states, and the opportunity for more and more animals be drasticly reduced, to once in a lifetime, and in some cases maybe never, how is "more hunters" helping?  In Utah where most everything is a draw, and these opportunities are being sought after by "more hunters", more hunters are pushing more and more in to the nonhunting catagorey.  It is just becoming, not worth the hassle, one of many reasons I do not hunt in my home state of Utah.

As Traditional Bowhunters many of us have seen the profileration of gizmos and gadets that really have no place on bowhunting, but make up for lack of woodsmanship skills.  If Cablea's and others had the good of hunting in the forefront of their minds they would not sell, nor promote these things, but then they would not make money, and after all that is why they are there.

I am sorry, but I have to say that the continual lowering of the age to hunt to keep more hunters in the field, will come back and hurt us in the future.  This has been presented as "the glass is almost empty" and the presenters, for the most part have played on emotions, for the sake of the almighty dollar.  As a side note on this, I would be curious to know how many "Memoramdeums of Understanding"  were signed between State Agencies and others promoting this?  For those that don't know what a MOU is, it is an agreement between a state agency and another organization stating, that if you (state agency) promote and get what we want passed in your state we will funnel monies in to your various programs.  This is one of the tatics of the ATA to get the X-gun thing going.

In the long run we are turning over the future of something we love, and respect to 10 year olds, whose biggest problem is getting out of bed in the morning.................
Tim

TGMM Family of the Bow

I guess if we run into the bear that is making these tracks, we oughta just get off the trail.......He seems to like it!  
My good friend Rudy Bonser, while hunting elk up Indian Creek.

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2007, 01:55:00 PM »
The parents should know when a child is ready to hunt period. To legislate an age to start is putting yet more control into politicians hands. The later you wait to get a child started the more other things they become involved in and many for many years by the time they "come of age". I had killed 6 deer by the age of twelve and am hooked for life. Lazy children are a reflection of poor parenting and to punish children that are raised right just doesn't set well with me.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline tomh

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 449
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2007, 04:06:00 AM »
well said vermonster.

Offline DaleinOhio

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 94
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2007, 10:47:00 PM »
Tim,

I love devil's advocates...they make me think.  I agree with you 100% about a kid paying his or her dues before he or she can hunt. My kid will each step of the way.  My most valued hunting knowledge is what I figured out for myself in our back woods with a bb gun.  By the way, if you've never read "The Old Man and the Boy" by Robert Ruark, then you are missing out.  In that book is the proper way to raise a young hunter.  But as Vermonster said in his latest post, it needs to be our choice as the parent...not the state government.  And sadly there will be those who misuse this law, but hopefully more good will come from the law than bad.

And maybe I mispoke, but Families Afield isn't just about getting more hunters afield, it's about getting to young people before they are hooked on video games and computers and so many other things that could keep them from giving hunting a try.  Part of Families Afield, in many states like here in Ohio, is an apprentice hunter license that lets young (or older) new hunters give hunting a try, if accompanied within arm's length by a licensed hunter over the age of 18, before taking hunter's ed.  I know that is another HUGE debate there, but the USSA found that many people are intimidated by hunter ed and liked the idea of being able to see if they even liked hunting before taking the classes.

And young people are key to preserving hunting.  The anti's know this and have programs that give anti-hunting propaganda to schools, disguised as comic books and other seemingly inocuous things.

And you know, I feel some days that there are too many hunters (mostly when I get to my favorite spots on public land and find a guy with a crossbow in a climbing stand already there) and I thank God I don't have to win the lottery in my state to hunt anything.  But we will have an even greater problem when there aren't enough hunters to impress upon legislators that the voice of hunters is one they must listen to.  Bottom line:  legislators only care if it gets them votes and by having a large pool of voters we get listened to.

I got into traditional archery to get away from gadgets and gizmos myself, so I am with you there.  There are simply too many people who forget about good woodsmanship and skill gained from experience in favor of the newest plastic doodad.  But we can't be naive and expect Cabela's not to sell them because we think they are stupid.  The wheelie guys buy way more stuff than we do, it's just good business to carry those things.  And the Cabelas know it is good business to support the USSA, SCI and others.  They give a great deal of that money to help preserve hunting.  The fact is we NEED these rich folks to give the money because most of us simply can't.  I bet if all of us here on Tradgang gave what we could right now, it wouldn't equal what the Cabelas gave last year...by a long shot.  I take it upon myself to give a hard time to my wheelie friends and challenge them to learn to hunt with a real bow and I have converted quite a few.  But it's not my place to say anyone shouldn't hunt a certain way as long as it is legal.

As for the MOU idea, I can only say that none were given by the USSA.  The USSA gets help and support from state agencies.  The USSA doesn't have the funds to dole out, all of their money is used to fight the fight.  State agencies are HUGE in the USSA's Trailblazer program.  Without them, the program would not get far.  And one thing I have learned in that line of work is that legislators don't listen to the state wildlife agencies that much.  They have little pull when it comes to getting laws passed.  It is the communal voice of us, the hunter/voter, who the legislators listen to when it comes time to say yay or nay.

And I promise you, I would never turn over the way of life I love to ten year olds.  When it comes time to hand it over, I will hand it over to the mature, ethical, skillful, intelligent adult hunters who were lucky enough to have someone pass on the skill and knowledge of experience and take him or her hunting when he or she was younger (whatever age that may have been).  Besides, 10 year olds can't vote...but they grow into 18 year olds and we have to replenish our pool of voters with new lifelong hunter/voters as hunters pass on or just quit hunting, which sadly happens.
"So much do the savages esteem the wood of this tree for the purpose of making their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it."  -- Meriweather Lewis' description of the Osage Orange tree in a letter sent to Thomas Jefferson.

Offline tim roberts

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1460
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2007, 07:35:00 PM »
Dale,
Again being the devils advocat here, I had a talk with a friend of mine, who is a Regional Rep for MBA.  One of the problems we are facing in Montana is alot of these folks from the East, and Mid-west are coming to Montana and leasing up huge tracts of land.......One of the bigger outfits doing this is Cabela's, to support their Outfitter Program.  This is pushing residents and some nonresidents off of land they have hunted, some for many years.  For this and a number of other reasons I feel that it is not to hard to see why hunter numbers are declining.  There are a hell of a lot more of us common folk than there are the rich folk.  
I am a do it myself type of hunter, this approach has probally cost me a bunch of animals, but the lessons learned, the sights seen, the memories, are all priceless, and never would have been gained or appericated had I hunted with a guide, or on a game rich ranch because I can afford to be the only one there.  
Just another reason why I do not like, or like to be considered a part of the "Big Tent".
Tim

TGMM Family of the Bow

I guess if we run into the bear that is making these tracks, we oughta just get off the trail.......He seems to like it!  
My good friend Rudy Bonser, while hunting elk up Indian Creek.

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2007, 09:20:00 PM »
You seem to be very confused on what exactly the big tent is supposed to mean. Rich folks just getting there way isn't a part of the big tent. The big tent is hunters looking out for hunters regardless what animals they hunt or legal weapon they choose. Seems lots of folks like changing what is supposed to be about to meet personal agendas and these other definitions get pushed so much folks start believing them. The antis love to see the division and I am sure do there share to propagate it. Special interests are a whole different ball of wax.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline DaleinOhio

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 94
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2007, 10:29:00 PM »
Tim,

I'd be ticked off, too, if I were you.  I pray every day that people keep overlooking Ohio's trophy whitetail potential.  It will be a sad day if all the private land in Ohio gets locked up by rich hunters and their leases as in such states as Illinois, Iowa and out in your neck of the woods.  And I am not defending these actions at all.  I'd like to see more public land made every year.  I would gladly pay double the current price for licenses and tags if it meant that the state would buy new land each year to make public for hunting instead of seeing it locked up by a rich few.  But I think Vermonster has it right.  What the "big tent" idea is is basically hunters standing with hunters no matter how or whar or with what weapon they hunt.  I don't defend big business practices, but I do know that some of these big businesses do quite a bit of good for our sport each year and I am glad, because they are the only ones who have the money or resources to get these things done.

I am a do it yourselfer, too.  I may never ever step foot on any of those high priced, game rich ranches and that's okay.  I much prefer to feast or famine on my own terms. It is flat out unfair what the rich are doing when it comes to locking up land.  I have no answer to that.


 
Quote
Originally posted by tim roberts:
Dale,
Again being the devils advocat here, I had a talk with a friend of mine, who is a Regional Rep for MBA.  One of the problems we are facing in Montana is alot of these folks from the East, and Mid-west are coming to Montana and leasing up huge tracts of land.......One of the bigger outfits doing this is Cabela's, to support their Outfitter Program.  This is pushing residents and some nonresidents off of land they have hunted, some for many years.  For this and a number of other reasons I feel that it is not to hard to see why hunter numbers are declining.  There are a hell of a lot more of us common folk than there are the rich folk.  
I am a do it myself type of hunter, this approach has probally cost me a bunch of animals, but the lessons learned, the sights seen, the memories, are all priceless, and never would have been gained or appericated had I hunted with a guide, or on a game rich ranch because I can afford to be the only one there.  
Just another reason why I do not like, or like to be considered a part of the "Big Tent".
"So much do the savages esteem the wood of this tree for the purpose of making their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it."  -- Meriweather Lewis' description of the Osage Orange tree in a letter sent to Thomas Jefferson.

Offline Brian Krebs

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2117
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2008, 04:41:00 AM »
But the assumption is that gun hunters and compound bow hunters will support us.

Reality is different.

 Keep in mind the first anti-bowhunters were rifle hunters; and your most often going to hear anti-bow statements from rifle hunters (like 'I have seen deer running all over with arrows sticking out of them'..despite that being an irrational and false accusation); or from compound bow hunters who continually ask for profeciency testing... at compound bow ranges* (20 to 80 yards).

You can also look at the McCallister(sp?) studies; where compound bowhunters tried to say: traditional bow hunters wounded more deer than they did: and therefore should not be allowed for the hunt there..(followed by a study that showed the reverse).

I really think being in the big tent is like being a dwarf; and hanging around the NBA hoping they will defend your playing basketball: if it ever comes to height requirements.

We have a right to hunt that transcends profeciency tests; and the real possibility of traditional bowhunting- being the banana thrown at the 800 pound gorilla- we know as the anti-hunters.

I really believe we need to stand on our own merits and values and ideologies; and still support other forms of hunting.

Seems we forget: WE bowhunters were first. First there was bowhunting and then there was gun hunting; not the other way around.....

I want to point out the highest award we traditional bowhunters can recieve is the ISHI award.
 That shows our roots not in race; but in bowhunting.
 Personally I like it that way!

The continual apologies and fear of the past being 'discovered' as unethical by todays standards is pretty blind thinking...as it seems to include only white people hunting in the United States... and forgets the history of the bow here for thousands of years: as a part of native American societies.

People have bowhunted for at least 7,500 years; and we traditional bowhunters-if nothing else should be known to honor that relationship with nature.
 I assume you do honor our relationship with nature?????
 
I am not against rifle hunting; I am not against compound bowhunting.

I just insist we not rely upon them: for our safety.


*saw an elk hunting show tonight where it was stated an 'elk bow' should be sighted in from 20 to 80 yards...yes of course... a compound bow hunter. The start of the 2008 tv bowhunting season!
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Offline laddy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 497
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2008, 05:50:00 PM »
Considering the fact that the NRA has become a political weapon with a one party agenda, it may well be considered the enemy of the Democratic party.  If the country as a whole rejects the rich man's agenda that the current administration has displayed and by the above comments, some of us are getting tired of being run over by the rich as well, that big tent could get a bit shaky when the wind comes at it from the wrong direction.

Offline tim roberts

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1460
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2008, 08:32:00 PM »
Vermonster,
Rich or just a Common Joe, they are all still hunters, some can afford to and some can't afford to!  I thought under the "Big Tent Theory" all hunters were welcome?

Brian,
Thank you!  I too belive that we should we should stand on our own merits, values and ideologies.  We should support other methods of hunting that the resource can sustain.  But when push comes to shove it should ourselves that we depend on to defend bowhunting!
Tim

TGMM Family of the Bow

I guess if we run into the bear that is making these tracks, we oughta just get off the trail.......He seems to like it!  
My good friend Rudy Bonser, while hunting elk up Indian Creek.

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2008, 09:11:00 PM »
I hope the day never comes when we need to stand completely on our own. It hasn't worked out to well for a lot of other minority hunting groups.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline tim roberts

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1460
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2008, 10:01:00 PM »
Well we have talked about some of the problems facing bowhunting, so what is a solution?  There are some who feel that we need to stand on our own, while supporting other hunting methods, and there are those who feel we should just jump in with everyone, so to speak.  Like Brian said eariler, the first antibowhunters were gun hunters, and I for one think they are as big a threat as the anti's, but that is my opinion.
I have an idea as to a solution but I would like to hear what some other ideas are from the folks who have been in on this...........
Tim

TGMM Family of the Bow

I guess if we run into the bear that is making these tracks, we oughta just get off the trail.......He seems to like it!  
My good friend Rudy Bonser, while hunting elk up Indian Creek.

Offline Gurn

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2008, 11:22:00 PM »
I posted this before, but I think it just might fit here also.

Vermonster
Buddy yer right on the money!!

As in Rome, do as the Romans

“If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to end it”.……….Fred Bear

By John Simeone
On a brisk spring morning on a secluded lake, somewhere in the state of Vermont, a hunter waits patiently in a tree stand. This tradition goes back three generations in the nimrod’s family, and you would believe it’s not much different than deer hunting right here in Louisiana. No, not deer hunting. Would you believe he is legally gun fishing? The quarry is spawning northern pike in the shallows, and the hunter/fisherman shoots the fish with a selected firearm and then scoops up his dinner.
Oh my goodness does that rub a lot of you raw; does it sound unsportsman like or just plain ridiculous? But this form of hunting has been around for a long time in that state, and done properly it is safe, ethical and legal, not to mention being a cultural tradition. To tell you the truth, I’d kinda like to try it out myself, however many others in their ignorance would cry fowl.
Invite that same hunter to Louisiana on a deer hunt, and after everyone gets through laughing at him about his gun fishing, they inform the already embarrassed Yankee, the hounds will be turned lose at 9:00 am. The hunt master hands him a shotgun and a handful of buckshot, telling him to leave the rifle in the case, while he goes over the safety rules of this timely southern hunting tradition. Then our Yankee kicks and screams all the way to the deerstand complaining, “They don’t do it that way in Vermont.” Chances are he will change his tune when he finds out he is about to have more fun than a Yankee ever deserved, but until the first strike of the hounds he will stew in his own myopic view of deer hunting. If you think you have the market cornered on methods, protocol, or even sportsmanship your living in a glass bubble.
It certainly doesn’t stop there. Always among hunters there is an individual, or a group that wants to pontificate how we should conduct ourselves afield, even when the contrary is perfectly legal, ethical and many times traditional. Game and Fish Commissions have long figured out what the majority of the people want as far as methods and means, basing their decisions on harvestable numbers of game, rules of fair chase and local cultural hunting traditions. Louisiana, the Sportsmen’s Paradise is by far one of the most liberal and that’s why I choose to live here.
Still you can get an emotional response over these topics and more. Bow hunters vs. Gun Hunters, hunting on the ground vs. elevated stands, Inline muzzle loaders vs. traditional muzzleloaders. Hunting Turkeys with rifles as opposed to shotguns, then there is the crossbow issue and whether or not we should bait deer or other big game animals. Of course you have the guy that backpacks a deer stand into remote areas as opposed to the heated box stand hunter over the alfalfa field. The classic battle between the “Haves” and the “Have Not’s” certainly relates to hunting. One activity may be somewhat distasteful to one group of hunters while being perfectly acceptable to others. Unfortunately, the words legal, ethical, and traditional don’t seem to be enough convincing for some.
There are those who are just bound to a small area and only know their way of hunting, which is not a problem. This only requires a little study and conversation with other locals if the hunter travels outside of his traditional boundary. It does however, require an open-minded attitude lending new credence to the old adage, “As in Rome do as the Romans .” If you travel out of state on a hunting trip, ask your friends what the local traditions are and be prepared to be surprised.
Then there are what the outdoor forums now call “Cannibals.” This group of individuals crusade the destruction of certain core hunter groups usually for there own personal gain, whether it be hunting lands or misguided opinions. I’m generalizing here, but I could easily get specific, just look around you. It’s the dog that won’t hunt, but he won’t stay on the porch either. He just runs around nipping at the other dog’s heels, and it’s not politically correct to shoot him. Remember it is the core hunters that buy the majority of the hunting licenses and pay the way for the rest of us, including non-hunting outdoorsman.
A learned anti-hunter can put a negative spin on any type of hunting regardless of its nature considering the present day sensitivity of society. Anti hunting groups are the final interlopers, waiting in the wings enjoying with glee any type of infighting hunters conjure up to do away with themselves. Time is on their side. These so called cannibal hunters are unknowingly joining ranks with anti-hunters, undermining the very soul of hunting tradition every time they make a criticizing comment on legal, ethical and traditional hunting methods and means.
The bottom line is, if you don’t prefer to participate in a certain way of hunting, then by all means don’t. The time is now to rally hunters through education and understanding, constantly remembering if you aspire to the ways of the cannibal, you may be next on the menu. Pass it on.
Just because it don't work for you, don't mean it don't.

Offline Brian Krebs

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2117
Re: So you don't like the big tent idea for hunting and fishing?
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
Gurnie

 I have read; and re-read the Simeone thing; and I don't find any value in it-in this topic.

 Certainly infighting is bad; but the fight is not by traditional bowhunters to change things;just wanting to ~maintain~ things.  Its the other people in the tent that are making it a threat- to mention it.

 If you ask your wife to go hunting; and she starts screaming about things that have to be done around the house... its HER that is being unruly.

Didn't Oliver simply ask for more? Wasn't the uproar from those in charge?


My kingdom for an analogy!!
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©