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Author Topic: Look at this garbage  (Read 3470 times)

Offline McDave

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2008, 02:37:00 PM »
I have mixed feelings about this.  There always have been and always will be people who are dead set against hunting.  I don't think there's any point in dealing with people like that.  It probably just makes them happy when they see us get aroused, like someone is finally paying some attention to them.

And if you do decide to react to what they're saying, like a rebuttal letter to the editor, you have to be careful how you phrase it.  Of course, being in California, we get lots of anti-gun press from time to time, and then there's the usual flood of reaction from the pro-gun side.  Some of the letters they publish from the pro-gun side probably hurts the pro-gun side more than it helps them.  I sort of cringe when I read some of them, and think that some anti-gunner is going to cut it out and use it as an argument as to why more gun control is needed.

So you sort of have to keep your intended audience in mind.  You don't need to preach to the choir on the hunting side, and it doesn't do any good to preach to the choir on the anti-hunting side.  It's a lot like presidential politics; it's that big group in the middle that really doesn't give a darn about hunting or not that's going to win it or lose it for us.

I'm sure that was the case some years ago when they outlawed mountain lion hunting in California.  There never would have been enough votes from the anti-hunting crowd to pass that thing.  I think the message never really got to the middle, that mountain lion hunting was going to continue whether sport-hunting was outlawed or not; that it was just a question of whether the state made money by charging people for sport hunting or had to pay professional hunters to cull out mountain lions.  Instead the message was how unfair it was to run down the mountain lions with dogs, how nobody hunted them for food, how noble they looked, and where was the sport in that?

So what would be an effective message to those who don't hunt, and never plan to hunt, if you want to preserve hunting?  Well, there are several things I can think of:

The group you're aiming at doesn't really think hunting is awful, they just don't want to do it, and they don't want to get shot by accident if they take a walk in the woods.  A lot of people in that group may do other things that are under attack, like motorcycling or even smoking.  I think a case can be made for preserving the rights of others in the hope that they will return the favor when it comes to your rights.

Another angle is gun ownership in general.  While most of the gun owners in California don't hunt, I can guarantee you that they feel very strongly about their right to own guns for self-protection, and despite a few enclaves on the coast, still are very much in the majority in California.  If any move to oppose a ban on hunting is linked with the right to bear arms, you will get a lot more support than if you limited your appeal to hunters.  And I doubt that you will find many people who are rabidly anti-hunting among those who want to own firearms for self-protection.

As far as bow hunting in particular is concerned, I have to relate a humorous story.  For years, people in Marin county, just north of San Francisco, have had a deer problem.  There are far too many people around there to have a rifle season.  I have visited people in Marin county who are the typical vegetarian hot-tubbing liberals you might imagine, who have begged me to bring my bow and shoot some of the deer that were eating their precious shrubery.  I have declined, because I don't want to end up in jail, but I have been tempted.  One of my friends, some years ago, was head of California Fish and Game, and got tired of the complaints from Marin county people of the deer problems up there.  He proposed a bow season for Marin county.  His proposal was raked over the coals, of course, and I think they decided to offer the deer free condoms instead, but he thought a deer season in Marin county would have been a good idea, and so do I.
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Offline Alex.B

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2008, 08:25:00 PM »
In today's fast, free internet-based world, any idiot can do/write anything he/she wants, and get print/promo/attention. Luckily, for us, the overwhelming majority of voting non/ hunting Americans do not buy the Antis rethorics.
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Offline carparcher

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2008, 09:41:00 AM »
There will always be people out there like that.  It's a sad truth.  While hunting is not for everyone, I am with on the fact that people who are "on the fence" read stuff like that and join the tree huggers.  Sad indeed...

Online Al Dente

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2008, 10:18:00 AM »
It comes as no surprise to me that Mr. Miele's tirade was printed in a "medical forum".  The AMA is one of the most ardent opposers of the 2nd Amendment.  What disturbs me the most, is that he uses a wide brush to pain his dismal picture.  Anyone who wants to kill another person, will do it, no matter what.  If they don't have a firearm, they'll use a knife, a piece of rope, a vase, a shovel, a car, etc...  Once again we are portrayed as maniacal psychopaths.
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2008, 04:29:00 PM »
( FBI statistics)
 There were 17,034 murders in the United States last year.
Not all murders were committed with guns:
 Murder Victims
 by Weapon, 2002-2006


 Weapons 2002  2003  2004  2005  2006
 Total 14,263  14,465  14,210  14,965  14,990
 Total firearms: 9,528  9,659  9,385  10,158 10,177
 Handguns 7,294  7,745  7,286  7,565  7,795
 Rifles 488  392  403  445  436
 Shotguns 486  454  507  522  481
 Other guns 75  76  117  138  107
 Firearms, type not stated 1,185  992  1,072 1,488  1,358
 Knives or cutting instruments 1,776  1,828  1,866  1,920  1,822
 Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 681  650 667  608  607
 Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)    1 954  962  943  905 833
 Poison 23  9  13  9  11
 Explosives 11  4  1  2  1
 Fire 103  170  118  125  115
 Narcotics 48  44  80  46  42
 Drowning 20  17  16  20  12
 Strangulation 145  184  156  118  135
 Asphyxiation 100  131  109  96  107
 Other weapons or weapons not stated 874  807 856  958  1,128

 a.. 1 Pushed is included in personal weapons.

Most people forget that murder was around for thousands of years before guns. Guns did not make murder.

I have not seen any data on how many people that murder are active hunters. I doubt there is any correlation at all. Virtually all the people I saw as a 'cop' that committed murder were not hunters. Hardly more than an observation; but if there was a connection; I am pretty sure it would have been pointed out a LONG time ago...
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Offline rtherber

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2008, 06:20:00 PM »

Offline vermonster13

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2008, 09:03:00 PM »
Ok guys. Enough with the guns and back onto the original post please.
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2008, 12:10:00 AM »
the original post was about an article relating a connection between hunting and murder.

 If that is indeed true; then the FBI's crime stats should logically mention the use of bows in crimes. It doesn't.

 So; even if the articles premise is true; it does not apparently apply to bowhunters.
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2008, 12:30:00 AM »
Brian wasn't speaking of your post, it's relevant.

Let me say it clearer. I just don't want the thread to get out of hand with posts of politicians, celebrities and such with guns. Keep it on the topic of the article and how hunters are portrayed. The writer of the article seems to think all hunters should be tested not just gun. If I thought that, this thread would have to be pulled.
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Offline HNTN4ELK

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2008, 09:26:00 PM »
Obviously the writer of the article is just as disturbed as the murderer of whom he writes.....


Gary

Offline Leon.R

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2008, 04:40:00 AM »
Not trying to hi-jack this thread but in the same lines I would like to see a comparison in murders in England before and after the handgun ban...
There is not that much hunting going on here so why do we get so many murders from shootings to stabings here?
Most of these areas are urban or citys that basically means no hunting and no exposure to hunting thus no connection...
One problem you have, and that has been stated before here is that anyone with an opinion can in the modern press have that printed with no connection to facts, the internet is the same - a soap box and all can say what they want.
Not trying to be difficult but I can go on these forums and give advice on building extremely powerfull bows even though I know very little, its up to the readers to decide wether i know what i am talking about, on this forum i would probably be told off but guys here know more than me...in the papers the people who dont know are the ones that take it for the truth...
Ahh.... yous get my point...
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Offline GrnMtnTradNut

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2008, 09:48:00 AM »
A shallow minded nimrod and the worst piece of literature I have ever read.

Offline DaleinOhio

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2008, 09:42:00 PM »
Notice that the newspaper that put this out is in Louisiana.  Notice also that the person who wrote it is from New Paltz, New York and is the VP of the Committee to Abolish Sport Hunting, or some such nonsense.

For those of you out there who doubt that the anti-hunters are a threat to hunting, take note of this.  This person sent his opinion to a newspaper well over a thousand miles away...and THEY PUBLISHED IT.  If they get one person who is on the fence about guns and hunting to side with them, then they have won and they know it.  The anti's are not rational and they will use whatever forms of misinformation they can to attempt to refute the scientific evidence that supports hunting.

Nothing about this is journalism, or literature...it's propaganda and it's a shame that this news outlet chose to pass on such drivel.
"So much do the savages esteem the wood of this tree for the purpose of making their bows, that they travel many hundred miles in quest of it."  -- Meriweather Lewis' description of the Osage Orange tree in a letter sent to Thomas Jefferson.

Offline rbbhunt

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2008, 01:15:00 PM »
DaleinOhio is right.  This person is using some kind of warped (il)logic to spread his agenda.  Whether this is based on facts is irrevelant to these type of people.  As stated by someone else, a rebuttal needs to be printed, but it needs to be done elequantly and not as an attack on the person, but as a way to convey the truth
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Offline metalhead

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2008, 11:47:00 PM »
what disturbs me is the people this artical suggest test us for our santity are the same proffesionals that have "sold out" to mind altering deadly precription drugs.These drug companys and professionals are going to cripple this country if we dont wake up.

Offline laddy

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2008, 03:28:00 AM »
Speaking as a tree hugger, yes that is correct.  I like hunting in the most pristine, clean water, way off the beaten path, most natural places I can get to and I hope those places stay that way.  Any time someone with a hunting weapon and connected to any one in any way with hunting there are going to be knee jerk responses like this one.  the problem is, we can say it is an isolated incident, but there are going to be more of these isolated incidents similar to this one.  The problem is as I see it, most of society lives so far from the world of the hunter that when something shows up like this they do not have a pool of comparative data to make a judgement based on any reasoning that makes sense to the rest of us.  It's an isolated case, isolated from comparative data and every time it is going to look the same.  If that is the only exposure the common city dweller has to guns, name calling and judging them for their fear is not going help any thing.  An avenue of patient educating should be available, but it does not reach far enough if it is.  If the hunting community could kindly explain themselves so that wide spread fear mongering does not rule peoples logic there would be gains.
  Metal guy has a point.  Mind altering prescription drugs, did you all know that they were putting thimerosal in the inoculations in babies that are required by law?  In case you don't know, that's mercury.  Some body wants to dumb down society, there is no reason for it to be there, it can and has according to those who are pressing for law suits on the matter, believe it cause autism and behavioral problems.  The weapon was a tool used by a disturbed mind, and there is more than likely a reason that is never explained in articles like this one.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: Look at this garbage
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2008, 07:58:00 AM »
Ok gotten a bit off topic and discussed about as much as needed at this point.
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