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Author Topic: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?  (Read 7224 times)

Offline JC

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Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« on: February 22, 2008, 08:28:00 AM »
Gray Wolves No Longer Endangered
By MATTHEW BROWN,AP
Posted: 2008-02-22 08:00:37
Filed Under: Science News
BILLINGS, Mont. (Feb. 21) - Gray wolves in the Northern Rockies will be removed from the endangered species list, following a 13-year restoration effort that helped the animal's population soar, federal officials said Thursday.

Off Endangered List: The federal government announced Thursday that gray wolves will no longer be protected under the Endangered Species Act after their numbers increased sharply in the Northern Rockies following a 13-year restoration effort.

An estimated 1,500 wolves now roam Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. That represents a dramatic turnaround for a predator that was largely exterminated in the U.S. outside of Alaska in the early 20th century.

"Gray wolves in the Northern Rocky Mountains are thriving and no longer require the protection of the Endangered Species Act," said Interior Deputy Secretary Lynn Scarlett. "The wolf's recovery in the Northern Rocky Mountains is a conservation success story."

The restoration effort, however, has been unpopular with ranchers and many others in the three states since it began in the mid-1990s, and today some state leaders want the population thinned significantly.

The states are planning to allow hunters to target the animals as soon as this fall. That angers environmental groups, which plan to sue over the delisting and say it's too soon to remove federal protection.

"The enduring hostility to wolves still exists," said Earthjustice attorney Doug Honnold, who is preparing the lawsuit. "We're going to have hundreds of wolves killed under state management. It's a sad day for our wolves."

Plans submitted by Idaho, Montana and Wyoming indicate the states will likely maintain between 900 and 1,250 wolves for the foreseeable future, federal officials said.

Wolves have increasingly preyed on livestock as they expanded into new territories. At the same time, ranchers and wildlife agents have made more wolf kills, which are allowed under the Endangered Species Act in response to livestock conflicts.

Since the late 1980s, 724 wolves have been killed legally, and roughly the same number are estimated to have been killed illegally by poachers. Despite that, the overall population has continued to grow at thups critical of such hunts say the government should be moving in the opposite direction, restoring wolves to areas where they are not now found.

The only other areas of the lower 48 states where gray wolves live are the western Great Lakes and the Southwest. A population of about 4,000 wolves in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin was dropped from the endangered list last year, while a reintroduced population of dozens of animals in Arizona and New Mexico has struggled to expand.

In a petition filed Wednesday with the Department of Interior, Defenders of Wildlife and the Natural Resource Defense Council argued new wolf populations should be established in Maine, New York, Oregon, Colorado, Utah, Washington and possibly New Hampshire, Texas and portions of the mid-Atlantic.

Federal officials said Thursday there were no immediate plans to reintroduce wolves into other states or regions.

However, an independent wolf biologist said he would be "shocked" if the animal again ends up on the endangered list.

"The last thing any of the states want is for wolves to be re-listed by the federal government," said Daniel Pletscher, director of the University of Montana's wildlife biology program. He added that tolerance of wolves has grown immensely since the species was nearly wiped out.


Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2008-02-21 16:36:16
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
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Online pdk25

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2008, 09:51:00 AM »
I know it's not rational, but I have a soft spot in my heart when it comes to predators.  I really have no desire to hunt them and enjoy seeing them in the wild.  Obviously when they are doing damage to livestock the ranchers justifiably harvest them, but overall an estimated 1500 animals between 3 states is not a very large number.  I hope that if the institute hunting for them, they limit it in some fashion that the population is at least self sustaining.  I don't live in the west(yet) but have never seen a wolf in the wild despite numerous trips to montana.  Hearing them is about the best that I have been able to do.  I had a pack within a couple hundred yards of me while on a trip to the boundary waters canoe area in minnesota after they had made a kill.  That was an incredible thrill.  I don't know if there is any one event in my life that has made me feel that I was in the wild more than that.

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 09:52:00 AM »
should read "they instititute hunting"

Offline laddy

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 12:07:00 PM »
We saw a wolf on the way to Quetico a couple of years ago, my only sighting.  My daughter has seen them a number of times, she live on the border of Voyageurs.  I am always amazed by the amount of emotional BS that is thrown around by locals concerning wolves.  Every Lab that goes missing, killed by the wolves!!  Every calf same thing, until they find that it was all those missing dogs.  It is the truth, loose dogs kill more live stock every year in every farming state than wolves do.  It is the states job to decide how many wolves they want to manage and do that with scientific principles.

Offline DeerSpotter

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 01:05:00 PM »
I have seen wolves in the boundary Waters wilderness area, and I know that Wisconsin is considering a hunting season in this year's legislation session.

We have 1500(by state figures) in Minnesota alone, and more people are thinking it is in the 3000 figure .  I live 20 mi. north of the Twin cities and 15 mi. north of me, we have a pack of two in a small-town area they've been there for two years.

I know the average coyote kills one to two deer a month, and when it comes to newborn deer I would imagine it is higher, I enjoy seeing them in the wilderness, the wolves that is, I just hope that they don't open it wide-open, I hope that its limited to a certain number, and of course the success rate will probably be as good as the deer, which is about 5% to 10%, there is a reason for the Wolf, it's called balance.  Now I don't want to start a different subject, but I think that population expansion is a problem.  We are living in their territory, and think they are the problem.


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Offline brettlandon

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 09:54:00 PM »
"The enduring hostility to wolves still exists," said Earthjustice attorney Doug Honnold, who is preparing the lawsuit. "We're going to have hundreds of wolves killed under state management. It's a sad day for our wolves."

Here's the problem, Doug Honnold and Earthjustice can have all of their wolves they want, but when these wolves damage the property of others (ie. livestock), then Doug and the rest of them should pay restitution.  If they can live by those rules, then I bet the farmers/ranchers will too.

Put your money where your mouth is Doug!

-Brett
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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 10:33:00 PM »
Just asking, does anyone know of a good place where you can find how much livestock damage is done by wolves (documented attacks only)?  I've actually been having trouble finding that info.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 10:46:00 PM »
It's hard getting current numbers. Some private anti-hunting groups have actually set-up funds to pay Ranchers for wolf depredations. Defenders of Wildlife has paid out over $300,000 alone.
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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2008, 01:13:00 AM »
thanks for the info

Offline Mike Orton

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2008, 03:03:00 AM »
Last year I hunted eastern Idaho, above Salmon, right at the Continental Divide. I was under a mile outside of the Montana border.   Wolf tracks in the snow right along side of my tent each morning, tracking deer.  They are wonderful to hear howling, really enhances the adventure.  They were in the drainage because of the elk I was hunting.  Initially I was concerned, but settled down realizing that the wolves are there because the prey animals I seek are in the area.  Initially I thought they'd drive the game away but I found elk there anyway.  I don't have a problem with my brother wolf, but then I'm not a rancher and I haven't lost stock to the rascals.

I'm glad the wolves have come off the endangered species list as I personally beleive in a smaller Federal Government,allowing the states to determine what's best for the states.  Big Brother Fed needs to mind his own business more than he cares to and stay out of the micromanagement of localized issues.  Now it's time for the State Biologists to step up to the plate and do what they do best, render expert  advice to the State Legislatures...
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Offline Bonebuster

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2008, 07:35:00 PM »
Wolves need alot of land to roam.

The Michigan DNR says there are no wolves in the lower penninsula, but there are too many people who know otherwise. They also say there are around 400 in the upper penninsula. If there were really only 400, they would rarely be seen by anyone. You meet way more residents of the U.P. that HAVE seen a wolf, than who haven`t.

A highly regulated season on wolves would keep numbers in line, and the wolf would again learn that people are to be avoided at all times. Sightings near homes and towns would decrease, and so would some of the problems that occur from
wolves.

Offline BigRonHuntAlot

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2008, 07:41:00 PM »
:campfire:
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Offline laddy

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2008, 07:42:00 PM »
it would be very good for the management to find how many animals ranchers loose to wolves, lions, bears and coyotes, and accurately catalog the percentage.  I think the anti wolf people sometimes hype it up a bit, around here there are way to many coyotes.  they kill more game animals than people realize, especially the young.

Offline Gurn

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2008, 11:24:00 PM »
Bonebuster
As I understand it, the wolf population in Michigan has surpassed the the number they were looking for. I guess that would mean some in the DNR will be looking to get season for them.
I understand that many have a soft spot for the Wolf. Who knows if sicence or emotion will prevail.
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Offline Randy Morin

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2008, 10:07:00 AM »
Yeah the Wolf is great, in theory.  Every
forest that once had them should get a dose of reintroduction....

that way you wouldnt have to drive so far to hear them howl and you could see them run away with your poodle or tear apart a bunch of milk cows from your back porch.  

Fish and Game here in this state are anxious to get a season open on them to check there growing numbers ( a good thing).  Come to think of it so are the other 2 states where there numbers are exploding (not a coincidence). These states have done a good job of managing wildlife for these last few decades and it sounds like they want to continue to do so.  

I hope to draw a tag, and let the wolf start paying for it own kibble. God knows the "Defenders of Wilflife" havent been lately.

Offline elk ninja

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2008, 01:20:00 PM »
Wow, with the exception of Randy, not a one of you state your home area is in wolf territory.  Except the few wolves in the UP or Minnesota.  That said, I like the wolves here.  Elk numbers are down, deer numbers are down, and those long time hunters here in Idaho, long used to having an "easier" hunt don't like ANY wolves.  There are a lot of bumper stickers that say "save and elk, kill a wolf" and the old policy of shoot, shovel and shut up is prominent among them.  What they have failed to realize is the FACT that while elk numbers are down, overall elk herd health is UP.  And that there are other factors included in the elk numbers decline.  ATVs, etc.  I say, the wolf numbers are a bit too high, and I am glad they are delisted.  They aren't endangered here.... will I hunt them?  Nope, I am with PDK25.  But with smaller wolf numbers, I think elk hunting will improve, but I like the wolves out there.
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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2008, 02:45:00 PM »
I have on several occasions wrote and posted a long list facts wolf related that have happened where I live, just north of Yellowstone Park, since the reintroduction of wolves but have decided not to present them again.  It doesn’t make much difference; most people have their minds made up and refuse to look at it objectively.  My conclusion is that some are ruled and influenced by emotion, led by the anti hunting and animal rights propaganda, arguing for and supporting them in a clueless manner.  Others prefer to use scientific information and numbers to manage wildlife in a responsible manner.  It’s up to each person to decide how he/she decides to make decisions regarding the wolves.  

My personal opinion is when the season opens on wolves I will get a tag and I will be trying to kill one with my selfbow, but if that don’t work, for the first time in fifteen years I will break out a gun (22-250) to reach out and do my part in the survival of our local game species.  One last thought if you want and love them so much work to put them in your back yard and remove them from mine!

Think I had better go out to the shop, work on a wolf bow, and settle down before I get more p*****.
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Offline Barney

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2008, 03:26:00 PM »
I'm with you, Walt. It's time the states with wolves get to control wolves. It's gone long enough. Note I said "control", not wipe out.   :readit:  

There's some numbers at the Wy game and fish website. Cattle and sheep loss and such.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2008, 04:36:00 PM »
Can I come hunt them with you Walt? Bet it would be a howl!
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Re: Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2008, 04:38:00 PM »
WOW.  Alot of emotion from the people who don't want people influenced by emotion.  I don't think that anyone has stated that they are opposed to a hunting season.  Only that they would prefer that their population be sustainable.  Just because some people chose not to hunt them doesn't correlate with them trying to prevent others from doing just that, or that they are being "led by the anti hunting and animal rights propaganda".  Kinda insulting to put forth that kind of rhetoric, regardless of how p***** you get.

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