Don Thomas PBS mag letter

[Widowbender]

Originally posted by Seeking Trad Deer:
Let's hope the ethanol becomes a big business and farming takes hold to take advantage of the economic value of planting corn.

All the talk of Ethanol has managed to do so far is drive up the price of corn and its driving up feed prices. We just lost a chicken processing plant and 800 jobs because the company is having to downsize because of rising feed costs due to the new Ethanol "gold rush".

Hunting everywhere is truly becoming the "Sport of Kings". Here in the southeast we are losing hunting land by the hour. I managed a 5,000 acre hunt club for six years. part of it was sold to a guy who makes hunting videos. The rest I lost last year to a group of folks found out what we had and paid more than we could. Back to knocking on doors. I keep telling my kids they better get a good education and a high paying job if they want  
to keep hunting.

David

[Jedimaster]

"the "outfitter' is all to often just the drunk with the key to the gate"  Well put Mr. Thomas.

I live in the south and grew up reading about and dreaming of hunting the wilds of the west.  I would still like to do that.  Unfortunately I really have to keep my eye on the ball at home.  Every year, with increasing effort, I fight to keep access to "my" home hunting grounds.  It is happening everywhere although I concede it is much worse in many western states.  I see more out-of-state tags than local, and they bring their money with them and money talks.  Especially in a economically struggling region.  I have long since left my rural farm home and now have the means to follow my dreams, but I rue the day that I pay to be a part of a socially elite class of "hunter" that jets in and out and leaves nothing but a bitter taste in the mouth of every hard working man that lives in and loves that land.  Call it my protest to over-commercialization.

[Doug S]

I think the root of the problem is the want of big antlers. For the glory. It's driving the whole commercialization of hunting. It's the cause of the Cancer.
  If it was illegal to take animals with the biggest antlers would anyone pay anything? Would someone pay 300.00 for a NR antlerless tag?   If someone say's it's just the challenge of a mature animal, why not shoot an 8 year old doe.
  I get access to property's all the time when I am willing to take only antlerless animals. No one travels and pays an outfitter to shoot doe's. These big payers want the racks and the glory we give them for it.
I agree with what BlackHawk said:
"If your only goal is to bag a P&Y animal on every hunting trip, then you will be disappointed. But if your primary goal is to simply enjoy the outdoors with a bow in hand, there is still plenty of wide open spaces to enjoy." Shoot rabbits. No one cares about them.
If you could get rid of the infatuatioon and worship and lust for big antlers it would all go away. Less out of staters, Less leasing, Less purchasing for hunting, less Monster buck shows.  Cabalas is brilliant, taking advantage of the lust for antlers by buying and hanging up big racks. People drive for hours to look at them. It's like a religous experience.
Am I wrong? How do we kill that desire in most hunters?

[Tom Mussatto]

Originally posted by Doug S:

Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong.


 

Originally posted by Doug S:
How do we kill that desire in most hunters?

At this point I doubt that you can.

[Don Thomas]

Doug -- I am with you. People aren't paying big money for quality experiences -- they're paying for big horns on the wall even if that means high fences and genetically manipulated wildlife. And yes, the mainstream outdoor media bear great responsibility for this state of affairs by glorying big horns over everything else. I'm proud to say we've always found room for good stories about shooting spikes... or does... or nothing. Don

[Mike Brown]

Living in Texas I have been paying to hunt all my life. I have a blue collar job.  I make a good living. Unfortunately I have to spend a chunk of it to be able to hunt.

I don't like it it is just the way it is and has always been during my 49 years.

The last 29 or so years my average drive to hunt has been 5 hours or 250 to 300 miles.

I have made the statement several times that many people who claim that they love to hunt but do not have to pay or drive long distances to hunt would stop if they had to do either or both.  This is whether they could aford the cost or not.

I envy those of you who do not have to do either and truly wish you well.

I however have to pay to play and I really LOVE to hunt so I have to put my money where my mouth is.

[Yohon]

Outstanding post Doug S, you hit the nail on the head with that great post and Tom M's reply would be mine too.

[Rico]

 A very good whitetail river bottom here was just bought up by a couple extreeeeemly wealthy business men from California. Not "a" ranch but 3 adjoining ranches. Not a few hundred acres either. It is now closed to all hunting and fishing except by them.

Thats were the trophies and our heros are made.

[allan f]

I live in Canada so the system is different here. So in trying to understand the problem, could someone please explain.

 In the States is there a way that outfitters can lease public land and say "no one else can hunt here"? Is that most of the problem or is it that landowners have seized that idea that they can rent the right to hunt on their land to the highest bidder? Or a combination of both?

Allan

[GregD]

I think this problem has existed here in the east for years. Look at the prices being paid for even small tracts of land. we are just used to it. I don't see how it can be reversed it's supply and demand. I think ethanol will be the worst thing for wildlife in this country ever. Not just the fact that it takes 2 gallons of oil to make one gallon of ethanol but the increased demand for corn is expected to have a huge impact on crp areas and remaining woodlands. Does anybody see any scenario where this could actually be slowed or reversed? Don I think you should sit down and write Longbows in the far north part 2. That will help get your mind off of this. Hardcover could be out in time for Christmas. I'll advance order one. By the way I don't want to jynx you guys out west but The best trout fishing here is already in large part out of reach. The clubs occasionally will advertise for spots on their waiting lists and some charge an initiation fee that's more than I paid for my first house.  Despite my complaining it's still the greatest thing on earth. I can't wait, I couldn't imagine giving up.  Good Luck Greg

[bentstick_55]

I live in Illinois and it is almost impossible to even lease a place here to hunt because always has more money than you do. I know one farmer who got $10,000 for the short season here from a few wealth Chicago corporate types. Then they never even showed up. I have almost given up myself.

[bentstick_55]

that should read: someone always has more money than you do

[bentstick_55]

Another note: The State of Illinois (government) is very anti-gun and hunting. The Governor has absolutely gutted the DNR here. It is about to virtually cease to exist.

It is sad to say, but I think this might actually (and I hate to say this) be a good thing. It will destroy the quality of our deer herd, and I doubt anyone will pay $10,000 to shoot a basket rack 6 point.

Over time when the outfitters are then gone things might get back to normal but it will take years.

But in the meantine we will loose a generation of hunters but the anti's wont.

[Molson]

Don Thomas is correct.  He has described perfectly the very people who will end hunting.  It will not be the anti's.

[George D. Stout]

The lure of big antlers to the multitude of mindless zealots has created a monster for sure.
How long do you think anyone will be able to afford those "big" bucks in Iowa and other parts of the midwest. Most of this lure reminds me of the Viagra commercials.  

Personally, I'm thankful to be able to have these millions of acres of public access here in Pennsylvania, where some other mindless folks think no deer exist.  And now, as a semi-employed, semi-old curmudgeon, I'm increasingly enjoying our deerless woods 8^).

[Doug S]

I think there are a couple of record books that might have started the whole thing. They have done some good, but does that good outweigh the thirst they have caused? I don't know.
Don- I really have enjoyed your spike stories. You are one of the few who writes about the experience as much as the bones. Thanks a bunch. Great stuff. More more more.
Allan- landowners can see the antlers reflecting in  eyes of todays hunters and now know the hunters are willing to pay alot of money to satisfy that thirst. I don't blame them. Many of them don't care personally about hunting, except for the money they now see it can bring them. We are Boneheaded.
How many of us would pass up a 7x7 bull elk
because we might get a shot at the lead cow? The smartest and most level headed of the group.  Probably none of us. Because who is going to slap me on the back or pay me for the story or film of that hunt? More here, than anywhere would, but a very tiny amount of the rest of the hunting world would. They would call me an idiot. And money wise I would be for the lost income I would have made. Which I (or my wife  :(  ) could have used for something else. What to do?
I guess the only thing we can do is not get anymore  excited about an animal someone took just because of it's head size than I would about little head size. And show more excitement about the hunt experience they had.
Gotta start somewhere.

[Diamond Paul]

Well, like it or not, we live in a capitalist society.  Everyone has the opportunity (albeit some have lesser opportunity than others) to find a niche, work hard, and become profitable.  Those who do can spend that money in any way they see fit, often at the expense of those who don't have as much.  If I had lots of money, I would attempt to lock up some prime hunting and fishing areas for myself and my family as well.  I'm sorry, but I doubt anyone here would prefer to go hunt a public access area over a 1,000 acres of prime private access land.  As the population grows, land becomes, essentially, gold.  Like all other species on this Earth, self-interest is the primary interest of humans.  Unless the government steps in and begins buying up land and opening it up for public hunting and fishing, hunting and fishing is going to become primarily the province of the very wealthy.  Before you start railing on these wealthy out-of-staters who buy up the land, ask yourself this: would you want people driving up to your house and coming inside to eat out of your fridge?  Of course not.  If you could afford to buy chunks of prime land, would you?  Would you then regulate who could and could not come and use it?  Of course you would.  In order to preserve our tradition of hunting and fishing, the government is going to have to get involved, but I doubt that's going to happen.  Nevertheless, it's not really fair to blame those who have the means for taking advantage of their opportunities.  Paul.

[Don Thomas]

DougS -- Your post emphasizes some rare good news! Montana has a very enlightened stream access law that it has vigorously and successfully defended against challenges from a lot of rich, selfish people. If a flowing stream is navigable -- and that basically means if anyone ever put a canoe in it -- the public can float it free of obstructions, and can walk up the banks between the mean high water marks. Thats one reason I'm spending more time with my fly rod. Don

[George D. Stout]

Diamond Paul, count me as one of those who would rather hunt public access than to cater to those selfish, ego-oriented who would "lock-up" land for equally selfish and monetary purposes. What separates from other species on earth is the ability to reason, and genuinely care for more than just our self interests.  Hunting is a very different thing to many of us...so please exclude me from any of those aforementioned categories.      

If you get an opportunity, read "A Sand County Almanac" by Aldo Leopold.

[Flinttim]

Boys, I feel your pain. Here in Indiana , land is going thru the roof. The ethanol scam (yes a scam) is driving land prices upward at a fast clip. We've seen the value of our family farm(100acres) go from 165 G ten years ago to near half a million today. That place has been my "getaway" for some time and since I'm the only one in the family that hunts, it's been sort of "my own" for long periods of Fall and Winter. But with 3 other heirs to the place, it will likely get sold for the green salad of salvation.At 165 grand we figured we could buy the other 3 out and keep the old place, but 500 grand rules that out. The property is next to what used to be a State Fish and Game area (1400 acres) but the Governor saw fit to give that land to Purdue University. In fairness, you can still hunt there but there are some hoops to jump thru. Most just quit.
 We've got the insurance companies demanding the increasing deer herd be thinned, so here in IN now you can hunt with about anything.X bows, shotguns, centerfire, pistols, muzzleloaders, wheel bows and on and on.We were hoping that the DNR would recognize that what they started out to be "primitive" weapons has gotten out of hand but the increasding herd knocks that in the head. To add insult to injury, I know of one place for example, a woods of about 60 acres that was "leased" to some people from Indy for $200 acre per season.It's really funny to watch Escalades towing several ATVs pull up to hunt a 60 acre woods that is less than a 1/4 mile off the State highway ! I'd love to buy a place for hunting but considering the cost and my age, is it worth the effort? I'll get out of this life OK I guess but what about the grandkids ? I hope they turn out to love hunting but where will they hunt ?