Don Thomas PBS mag letter

[wislnwings]

Down here leasing has locked up land a long time ago and forced the public areas to be overcrowded.  It is an unfortunate thing.  My wife and I have been discussing starting a family in the next year.  This makes me wonder if my kids will have a place to hunt and enjoy the outdoors or if they will have to settle for stories about what it used to be like.

[PrarrieDog]

Good subject.  
Montana has been "discovered" by the hollywood crowd including Ted Turner (who is the largest single land owner in the state) and others with too much money. They buy ranches and close them off fro the public.
I am watching and waiting for Wyoming to be "discovered" also.
In Wyoming we have a lot of public land that is available.
Grazing leases on public land is a constant fight with lease holders trying to shut down access.
Because land is not marked well lease owners try to bully hunters but access to GPS's are making a difference.
Guard your public land carefully and don't let the government "trade it" for better land unless it is in our best interest. I've watched this happen.
Best regards
Prarrie Dog

[[email protected]]

I don't have any effective answers.  

Join up with like minded folks and do what you can to protect your hunting interests.

Wyoming adds an additional twist to the problem with their "you can only hunt in wilderness areas if you have an outfitter" law.  They are certainly protecting their interest.

Odd, isn't it, that fishermen don't have the same rule and can do as they please wandering about in the wilderness.  

The bears must think hunters are far better eating fare that those guys toting a fly rod.

Bob

[kennym]

Gotta remember the golden rule folks,"the man with the gold makes the rules". 30 years ago there was bout 2 farms I couldn't hunt around here. Now theres bout 2 I can, not countin mine (which don't have any huntin anyways). Don't know a good answer......

[Lenny Stankowitz]

As with Mr. Thomas, it is against my better judgement to even respond to this thread but I feel that it is necessary.  

I have felt all along that the downfall of hunting as we know it would be a result of infighting among hunters and not from any outside source.  "Hunting" differs greatly from country to country, region to region, state to state and even county to county.  What concerns me may be very different from what concerns Mr. Thomas or anyone else for that matter.  What is important is that we as hunters stick together, support each other, and fight to preserve ALL hunting, even if we may not choose to partake in a given legal method, species, or limit.  

With all due respect for Mr. Thomas, I personally do not have a concern with land access in my area.  I have all the public land I care to hunt within an hour or two of my home.  I'm not saying that I have a lot of "trophy" opportunities, but that has never been much of a concern for me anyway.  On the other hand, certain hunting methods, hunting of certain species and certain equipment choices are under assault in my area, yet a number of other people, even "high profile" hunters from different regions seem more than willing to throw these things under the bus because they don't happen to agree with, partake in, or have any particular interest in them.  

I don't have any interest in hunting with hounds, (for anything other than birds) nor do I personally consider it to be particularly sporting.  I would NEVER however speak out against it, try to eliminate it or even give the impression that I think it should be done away with.  I don't have any interest in hunting with a compound bow but I would also never suggest that it is any less a worthy endeavor than hunting with my traditional equipment.  As I said, I do not have any access problems in my neck of the woods, but I would certainly do what I could to protect what others may be losing without infringing on personal property rights of others.

Some may ask where I am going with this post.  It's simple really.  This thread happens to be about Mr. Thomas and his writings but what I am about to say is not directed toward him alone.  It is directed to all those hunters, high profile or otherwise, that would ask for help in preserving what they hold dear.  Whether it be access to land, the ability to hunt doves, bait bears, hunt from trees, trap varmints or run hounds.  Again, with all due respect, don't ask me for assistance with your concerns while on the other hand speak out against, or work toward eliminating something that I choose to partake in.  It is only a matter or time before all the oxen have been gored and we have nothing left to hunt or nothing to hunt them with.

Lenny

[Rico]

How many here have private land that they own/hunt on and leave it open to the public?  Hows the hunting?

[Nate Fikkert]

Lenny,

I don't think you get it.  The division is being done by those with the money and the "inches are king" mentality.  Those are the guys who shoot the *-bows, go to cabelas spend $1000 and "become bowhunters", put scopes on "primitive" muzzleloaders.  Success on big animals is more important to them than anything else.  As Don says, Anti's won't destroy us, this inches at all costs will.

Nathan Fikkert

[ethan]

Reading these posts has made me think alot about what we have here in Tn.  The state is really pro-hunting and there is a ton of public land.  Here in West Tn. there is alot of river bottom land that is bow hunting only.  Once duck season opens the woods really empty out, which is fine by me.  Guess I'm fortunate.

[Plumbob]

Lenny made a good point Nate.

Don has hammered Bear baiting {I believe it was baiting if not I am sure he will correct me} in the past, Doug Borland ripped anything but spot and stalk, and Dick Robertson says if we don't abide by his traditional standards we are sinners and ruining hunting.

Nothing personal Don, but Lenny's point is valid.

As our public land gets lock up by private access for big dollars how wide is our circle of friends?

[Nate Fikkert]

I know where those guys stand on those issues, but ...Never mind, it is saturday and there aren't any hunting seasons going.

Nathan

[Phil Tuccillo]

Everyone has their opinions on what to hunt with and how to hunt,but access to land should be everyones concern, even if it does'nt effect you at the moment. These are not just Don's concerns they effect all who hunt,fish,& recreate outdoors.

[Nate Fikkert]

I guess I will just say this.  In my opinion, and I think others on this thread would share it, losing huntable land and decent game populations is a FAR greater danger than hunters sitting around a campfire (real or virtual) arguing about whether hound hunting, bear baiting, or carbon arrows out of a "trad" bow is ehtical or not.

Nathan

[Plumbob]

Point taken, what I was saying is watch who's pastime you turn your nose down on as you may need thier help.

And yes I believe this is a huge problem for all hunters.
How to stop it? Man I am all ears.

[Mike Brown]

Lenny and Rico I agree.

[Curtis Haden]

Originally posted by Nate Fikkert:
I guess I will just say this.  In my opinion, and I think others on this thread would share it, losing huntable land and decent game populations is a FAR greater danger than hunters sitting around a campfire (real or virtual) arguing about whether hound hunting, bear baiting, or carbon arrows out of a "trad" bow is ehtical or not.

Nathan

No offense, Nate, and it may be a little counterintuitive, but I think you just made Lenny's point for him...

Moving on - I guess that living where I live, with the hunting opportunities I have, makes me a little less emotionally involved on this particular issue.  The question that occurs to me is this:    Where  do you draw the line on commercialization and land ownership/leases???

Is it ok to get pumped up and submit to the book, if a 250 class whitetail makes the mistake of his life, and walks in front of my arrow? (fyi - that's not very likely, and I'd still be happy with an 80 lb. doe...)

Is it ok that I enjoyed reading about Fred's and Rick's trad slams?  ...or if I enjoyed reading about Chuck Adams' slam(s)???

What if I won the lottery tommorrow, and bought up 20,000 acres of prime Missouri whitetail habitat, and then said only TradGangers could hunt there with me?  ...Is that ok?  (you know, we'd have less than an acre apiece if all you blokes showed up one weekend...LOL)

I guess the real point I'm trying to make is that there are a lot of opinions out there, and most people of reasonable intelligence have the capacity to defend their choices.  Let's face it; we're not going to get rid of compound bows, in-line muzzleloaders, or   ESPN Outdoors  .  And why would we want to???  You won't ever convince me to do any of those things, but there are a lot of people who still enjoy them, and still manage to hunt "ethically".  A slob hunter or poacher isn't going to change much, regardless of what kind of weapon you put in his hands.

I'm not trying to make light of anyone's opinions or cloud the issues.  The thing is, these are big, complicated problems, and there's probably no good solution.  Simple things are never problems, just irritations...  If I was Don Thomas, I'm certain I'd have a different perspective!  This thread certainly made me think a lot about the future, and the opportunities my kids, and theirs, will or will not have.

I think the best we can do, is stand together, try not to bicker over equipment, and take a kid hunting and/or fishing.  (...especially if the kid in question is going to grow up and be the CEO of a multi-national corporation, with exclusive hunting rights to Texas)

[SERGIO VENNERI]

Yup ! I'm with Lenny and Rico on this one!! no doubt about it!

                   Sergio

[Nate Fikkert]

I am not sure how I made Lenny's point with what I said.  I would gladly listen to an explanation.  I guess my version of why the sky is falling is just different than that of others.  I think we would all agree that the sky is falling in one way shape or form though.  Rico, if I had great private land I would keep it to myself and those close to me.  I wouldn't charge outrageous amounts for others to hunt there.  

I think we will always bicker and fight about hunting methods amongst ourselves.  I just don't think some "minor" divisions in hunting equipment and methods are going to end hunting as we know it as fast as the issues originally talked about in this thread.  Bottom line is I do think something will have to change on this road hunting is going down.  Game management alone in many states because it is no longer about science or biology.  Game management is now about politics and money.

Overall, good discusion, it is good to positively discuss these issues.

Nathan

[Leland]

The day the wall became more important than the table,is the day hunting died.Just my two cents.  Leland

[nutmeg]

Anybody from Aroostook county in Maine feeling the same way. Things are really beginning to suck. Hunting will only be for the rich man soon. Our way of life will soon be over.

[Rico]

nutmeg you live in Ct.? Some of those homes there go for the price of a good size farm with a run down house.
  For a lot of us its about choices.