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Author Topic: Dave Petersen for President  (Read 3671 times)

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2008, 09:50:00 AM »
I don't have a problem with trapping or ATVs when laws are followed.  My experiences aren't very good though.

There aren't many trappers in CT, but of the 6 I've talked to only one checks his traps daily as required by law.

ATVs (grouping 4-wheelers, motorbikes and snowmobiles here) are only allowed in designated areas... so why are many of the state forests tore up?

Trapping and ATVs have their place, but laws need to be followed (and enforced) and I don't see where that's happening in CT or back home in NY.
>>>-TGMM Family Of The Bow-->
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"Death is not the greatest loss in life.  The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live." - Norman Cousins

Offline Tdog

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2008, 08:07:00 PM »
Well said Trap

Offline Dave2old

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2008, 03:53:00 PM »
Your passion shows through, Trap; a very thoughtful and well-stated response. If all folks who trap, ride ATVs, etc., did so not only according to the usually minal standards required by law, much less with passion and insight for others, the prey and the larger world, we wouldn't have to be against anything. For the record, I am not against ATVs per se. I am absolutely against the widespread abuse and overuse, esp. during hunting season, as mentioned by Ray and others. These machines and people whose butts seem glued to them have cost me most of my best hunting spots in recent years, so my views are not just theoretical -- very personal assaults on my access rights. We all have a right to use our public lands. But nobod has a right to destroy the resource or ruin things for everyone else. My article in TBM tried to hilight a few of the dozens of scientific studies documenting that elk don't like ATVs and just a few hunters using them carelessly during early archery and muzzleloaders seasons are capable of pushing elk off public land and down onto private land where they're not harassed ... and where hunters can't get at them. Bad for elk, bad for hunting. An inappropriate use. My canned killing article was, admittedly, over the top with disguest and rage. I was not talking about 10,000 acre Texas hi-fenced operations, nor, as a letter writer to TBM spent two pages talking about, African hunts. I tried to make it clear that I was talking about the standard western elk farm, where big bulls are shipped in horse trailers from non-killing farms to those that do shoots and sometimes executed in spaces as amall as a single acre, though a few hundred acres is more typical so the "hunters" can feel they've had a chase. I am happy to take flak for what I say, and happy to be proven wrong. It's tiresome thought to have folks argue with me about things I never said. I wish they hadn't run both those articles in the same issue ... a bit too much venom for even me. Thanks to all of you for your own thoughts. Time now for the evening hunt. Tomorrow, the last day, I'll be out all day, likely again in the rain. A true hunt is always a joy, a learning experience, and full of good memories. The desire to kill without hunting eludes me. Cheers, dave

Offline Clay Hayes

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2008, 08:31:00 PM »
Such a diverse post!  I’m sorry Dave, but you just wouldn’t cut it as a presidential candidate.  You can’t tell folks what you really think.  You might make an enemy that way.   :D    

On ATV use.  In my part of the Idaho, it’s hard enough to look at a forest service map and find a place that doesn’t have a legal ATV trail on top of every ridge and along every creek.  While looking over some maps last year I found what looked like a good prospect.  I took a hike to check the place out and wasn’t disappointed; nice creek bottom, aspen, bear and elk sign.  I was starting to get that feeling.  You know, the one you get when hunting season is just a month away and you think you’ve found the spot.  After finding a nice spring and the perfect hiding spot I hiked up a little rise to get a look at the whole picture.  Guess what I found on top, not 200 yards from my spring.  Yep, an illegal ATV trail.  Point being, it’s hard to get away from the things.   :mad:    

Around here, hunters that don’t mind a hike, flock to the few areas that you can get away from ATVs.  Last year Idaho Fish and Game did a survey of mule deer hunters.  One of the concerns that many (around 68%) had was the increasing presence of ATVs in areas that they hunt.  They want less ATV traffic!  That kinda makes me wonder why virtually no existing trails are being closed to motorized traffic and still others are being created (illegally and by government agencies).  Enforcement is a big problem on all the federal land out here.  One way the forest service is dealing with this is to legalize existing illegal trails.  That makes since.  Hmmm, if their gonna do it lets just make it legal, then we don’t have to worry about it any more.  Great job guys.    :thumbsup:      :banghead:    

Dave is exactly right about elk avoiding roads and ATVs (again, I haven’t read the article, so I can’t comment on that).  It’s been documented time and time again.  Why aren’t more elk hunters calling their f&g commissioners and representatives and telling them they want tighter regs on ATV use?  More non motorized areas equals better hunting.  It’s that simple.  Oh yea, that is if you don’t mind the hike.

ch

Offline jimmymac

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2008, 12:02:00 PM »
I’ve been lurking here on this forum for some time, and for the first time have felt compelled to respond.  Specifically, to the issue of trapping and to a man I deeply respect, Dave Petersen.  

Dave, I’ve read (and own)every book you’ve penned and have always found you to be an inspiration in my way of life and my personal views on hunting and ethics of the hunt.  Like you, I have chosen a simpler way of life and live in a small log cabin “on the edge of wilderness”, although I do commute 120 miles/day to be able to do that; it’s worth it.  I explain this only to show you that my response is in no way a “fight back” type of post, but rather to suggest that I have a little insight into the life you've chosen, I think I know you; - a little.

I agree with you on ATV’s and their misuse, like you I use my body and believe that it shouldn’t come easy, I could never see myself hunting a “canned” hunt, or for that matter shooting a bear over bait (as unpopular as that statement may be with some forum members) or in fact any bear, and they live around me.  For me, it comes down to ethics and a deeply seated respect for the wildlife and the hunt, and what the “hunt” represents.  I am a traditional archer and I believe myself to be an ethical hunter, the kill is not what I seek but rather the time spent in fair chase and the environs that the hunt takes me.

At 52 years old I’ve been hunting since I was 16, but I’ve trapped on and off even longer.  My respect for wildlife and hunting and conservation in general can be traced back to my early exposure to the outdoors through furbearer trapping, not hunting.  My ethics were born out of trapping, I learned at an early age that hard work is involved and to never take anything for granted that mother nature has given us, and to respect the animal and to be an example for future generations.  And throughout these years I have worked hard with trapping organizations to fight legislation to ban trapping as hard as I have fought with my local bow clubs to fight the crossbow being allowed during the bow season in my state.  So when I speak of trapping, or for that matter hunting, I believe I can speak knowledgeably about both having participated and having been close to both pursuits for most of my life.  I share the same passion for both, they both make up who I am and “shape and drive my life”.  

Dave, when you say “the prolonged suffering in non-kill traps I can't stomach, esp. when some weekend trappers check their sets only weekly”, you speak without the first hand knowledge of the trappers art and in fact, it reeks of the fabricated un-truths spoken by the misinformed so called “defenders of wildlife” and their associated groups.  You intentionally throw out a statement that people will latch onto and it will stick in their heads and somewhere down the road it becomes to them symbolic of what trapping is, just as it has apparently done with you.  It is a careless statement Dave.  We haven’t the space here for me to go into the laws of trapping nor the ethics of those I have been associated with during my years afield, but I will give the benefit of the doubt to all trappers; there is no money in it these days, instead those who still do it do it for the same reasons that you and I hunt, whether it be daily or on weekends when they can, they love it and they love where it takes them, and they do it ethically.  And yes, there are slobs in all sports.  Someone in a post above mentioned that he knew a few trappers and only one checks his traps daily, I then ask of you sir; what did you do about it?  Did you report them?  If you witnessed someone poach a deer or elk would you report them?  If we don’t police these pursuits then the slobs will always be there.

You mention Dave a friend in interior AK, and you rationalize that it is different for him as he must trap, and that he doesn’t like it but he must earn a living.  BS.  Life is full of choices, if he didn’t like it then he could move to where he didn’t have to trap for money, he could change his life, this isn’t the 1800’s.  You can’t pick and choose where it’s wrong and where it’s right Dave; you’re either for or against.  It’s the same with hunting, one could rationalize that he/she agrees with hunting for your friend in AK as it is more subsistence driven, but you could certainly go to the supermarket Dave!

You mention limiting the pursuit of trapping to killer traps only, getting rid of the leghold traps.  Trap has done a fantastic job above of explaining the pitfalls and hazards of allowing that to happen, so I won’t go into it other than to say I agree with Trap and I would bet that he and I both could give you some factual evidence that would spin your desire 360 degrees back to the leghold.  Why shouldn’t we also limit all big game hunting to rifle and/or crossbow?  They are more accurate and there is less chance of the lazy hunter who won’t practice his art of injuring the animal thereby causing needless suffering?

Dave, I live in southwestern NY, I have a neighbor who is an artist that you know very well, and I have been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to visit with him and see his gallery and view his lifestyle.  And as you know, he has spent many years as a trapper and as a traditional bowhunter.  When you look at his painting of an elk in the dark forest, it evokes a feeling inside you that is akin to me looking at his painting of a muskrat trapper in the marsh at sunrise.

We are not so different Dave, the trapper and the hunter.  The desire to kill without the hunt eludes both of us…………

Jim

Offline 2-BIG

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2008, 03:37:00 PM »
Jim, very, very well put. Thank you for taking the time to participate as there are those of us that cannot seem to put into words and express ourselves as you and Trap have.  :campfire:
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not. - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Clay Hayes

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2008, 07:36:00 PM »
I must say, Jim, that was pretty damn good!

ch

Offline TRAP

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Re: Dave Petersen for President
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2008, 12:24:00 AM »
Jim, Very well said fellow trapper and hunter.

    :thumbsup:  

Trap
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

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