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Author Topic: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery  (Read 2806 times)

Offline Biblethumpincop

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Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« on: September 20, 2008, 01:10:00 PM »
The local paper posted an article dated 09-19-08 that the city counsel was preparing to pass an ordinance that banned archery in the City of Surprise, unless it was at an approved range. There are no ranges in our city. I sent a letter to my representative, and have posted it below, along with email address. Please send support for a modification for the ordinance, to include the use of home ranges and schools.

thanks,


Email addresses:


[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]


My letter to Mr. Williams:


Mr. Williams,


I am a relatively new resident of Surprise, with our new home that is built in Surprise Farms. I am a police officer for El Mirage, and recently transferred down as a detective from the Flagstaff Police Department. Family is important to me, and activities that promote family time together top that list. While in Flagstaff, I had the opportunity to shoot archery in my backyard, with my children and wife. It is a pastime that we all enjoy. I have a history with the sport of archery, to include bow hunting and shooting archery for Glendale Community College in the early 1990's, and being ranked nationally. I have represented the State of AZ in a tournament against archers from the State of California, Baja California and Sonora Mexico. We took 1st place individually and as a team.


Archery once was taught in high schools in AZ and across the nation. It is a pastime that can be shared for generations. My father taught me to shoot archery, and I have taught my children. The proposed ban of shooting archery in our city at facilities that are not deemed "target ranges", limits that family interaction. The City of Surprise does not currently have an archery range. The closest archery range is the facility at the Ben Avery Shooting facility, which is approximately 1 hour away from my house. A total of 2 hours of driving time (to and fro) for approximately 30 minutes of shooting with my children is a detriment to my family's personal quality time together.


As a police officer, I understand the call for the general safety of the public. I understand that the "wants" of an individual are outweighed by the "needs" of the many. However, I respectfully request that the counsel review the proposed ordinance carefully and perhaps apply words that allow for private home ranges, if safety precautions are heeded. I understand that the ordinance will also ban the firing of pneumatic weapons, which can be used for intentionally destructive purposes, i.e... breaking windows.


The difference between firing a pneumatic weapon and archery equipment boils down to the traceable, recoverable evidence should a mishap occur. A pellet fired from a gun is non-distinct. An arrow fired from a bow is unique, often with different color feathers/vanes, color and material of the shaft, and color of the nock. Often, one arrow will be part of a matched set that the archer owns.


The home range can be constructed in the privacy of a person's fenced, back yard. The fence would provide privacy from neighbors, and protection from an errant arrow. The target shall be placed so that it is not in a direct line with an adjoining neighbor's residential structure. The target shall also be constructed of a material that adequately stops the arrow, and prevents it from completely passing through the intended target.


The lack of an archery range in the City of Surprise will potentially have an effect on the game animals hunted in the State. Inadequate practice could result in the wounding of game animals that may not have been wounded if bowhunters had the opportunity to practice at their residences with an adequate practice facility.


The ordinance would also potentially prohibit the teaching of archery at the local high schools. In a society where apathy and the lack of exercise for children has resulted in enormous amounts of childhood obesity, removing the ability to teach an outdoor sport to children may have long term effects that are not immediately realized.


I respectfully request, as a representative for my district, that you word the ordinance that would provide safety for the public, yet not restrict honest measures taken by home owners to have an adequate home archery range in the privacy of their own fenced back yard, as long as an adequate target/backstop is provided. If the arrows need to be even more traceable, make it an ordinance that requires the archer's initials be embossed or painted on the arrow. In addition, please word the ordinance to include the ability to have archery programs at local schools and public ranges.


I am posting a copy of this letter on message boards via the internet with email addresses for each district's representative. This is an attempt to rally support on the behalf of archers in our city.


Thank you in advance.


Respectfully,


John E. Heffelfinger

Surprise District 3 resident

623-236-4506 cell

Offline bowhunterfrompast

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 01:37:00 PM »
John,

Looks like you are on the right track with the letter. Hope all turns out for the best.

You may want to move this to hunting issues and politics or ask monitors to move it for you.

good luck

bhfp
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Offline McDave

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2008, 01:52:00 PM »
I hope it works for you.  I know that shooting a dozen arrows in my back yard every night is the best therapy I know for a stressful day, and certainly does my archery more good than shooting a hundred on a once-a-week visit to my local range.  I don't know what my local ordinances are (ignorance is bliss?) but fortunately, I've got understanding neighbors.
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Offline John3

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2008, 02:18:00 PM »
Very well written. Hope your rep understands and takes appropriate action.


John III
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 05:22:00 AM »
requiring a person shoot arrows with the owners name on it- might just encourage everyone to think safety.

I would find out who started this idea of making archery illegal. The seed that started this should be found and identified- that might tell you a lot right there about how to attack the law.

 At this point it looks like the passing of the law will create less disharmony than tossing it out. Find out why.

Are there other places that have inacted laws like this; and has the reason for enacting the laws: been satisfied ?

Its good you did what you did; but get ready to make the next shot.

I watched a tv show where a lady that was almost killed - and reminded me of many ( perhaps most) anti-hunters. She said that when she was nearly killed she '..realised I was dealing with reality- and it took me a while to return after the ordeal'. Return to what? See a lot of people live outside reality - and having to deal with it is troubling.

If they are considering this law; your dealing with a problem already. I wish you luck with this. But I would right now find out the who- what- when- where- and how...... so that after a year or two- if the law makes no affect on the reason it is enacted....then perhaps you can get the law off the books.
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Offline Biblethumpincop

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 09:41:00 AM »
I posted this on several websites, and sent it to our state archery associations.  They have all shown support, and have been sending the mayor and counselmembers emails.  I have received an email from my representative in the district.  He thanked me for my letter, and stated that he liked the wording.  He stated that he was going to pull the second reading this week, and place it on hold so that residents could offer an oppinion.  However, the flood of emails that I expect is happening, shall offer a great oppinion of behalf of archers.  Thanks for the support, and please keep the emails coming.

Offline Bjorn

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2008, 12:02:00 PM »
We can't do archery in out town either, I think that many/most municipalities have laws banning the use of archery equipment within city limits. I do it anyway-not all laws are meant to be obeyed.

Offline Canyon

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2008, 08:09:00 PM »
John, Hope it all works out in the end. I'll send my two cents although I am not suue what weight opinion a non district voter will have.

BTW I miss seeing your face around the office and talking bows and arra's. Hopefully I'll catch up with ya at one of the 3d shoots

Jim Coffey
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight;nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety;is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free,unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Offline Biblethumpincop

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 11:22:00 PM »
Hey Jim!  Things are going well down here, miss you guys too.

We were successful tonight at the city counsel meeting!  Residents spoke, including myself, and representatives from the Az Game and Fish, in addition to KJ, representing the ASAA.  The counsel unanoumously decided to pull the words BOW and ARROW from the proposed ordinance, and will look into a separate ordinance that regulated the use of archery, to include scouts, businesses, schools and home use.  Thanks for everyones support!

Offline Bjorn

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2008, 01:43:00 AM »
Congrats you guys! That's extrordinary-be proud!

Offline Dittybopper

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2008, 08:57:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bjorn:
We can't do archery in out town either, I think that many/most municipalities have laws banning the use of archery equipment within city limits. I do it anyway-not all laws are meant to be obeyed.
As long as you can do it safely, I agree.

Behind my house I have 22 acres of "protected wetlands" (ie., swamp), so it's not a problem for me.  If I miss, the arrow goes into the woods where it gets stopped pretty quickly by thick vegetation or a berm.

Down the street, though, there is a guy who has a typical postage stamp sized city lot, and he has a foam deer set up.  I don't know why he bothers, at most his range is like 10 or 15 yards at best, but the worst part is that he has no backstop:  If he misses the deer, the arrow is going to end up in somebody's yard.  Definitely *NOT* safe.  I'm just glad his line of fire is away from me.

The laws against archery in town are generally written because of unsafe idiots like that.

Offline McDave

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 02:32:00 PM »
"The laws against archery in town are generally written because of unsafe idiots like that."

I'm sure that's correct.  Also, once a law is proposed that has anything to do with safety, it is very difficult to derail.  All the people in the city council are thinking that if they don't pass it and someone gets hurt, the city will be sued and they will be blamed.  Notice you don't see any pullup bars on playgrounds anymore?  That's the reason.  A pullup bar just sits there and doesn't hurt anyone unless somebody falls off of it upside down, but cities have been held liable when some idiot does that.  When they should be congratulated, instead, for strengthening the gene pool.

Which is why I'm delighted to hear that the ordinance in Surprise to make backyard archery illegal was not imposed.  I know it was an uphill battle.  Plus, being a new law, it would probably be enforced.  Like someone mentioned, maybe there are a lot of anti-archery laws on the books in a lot of places, maybe even where I live.  But most people, even cops, may be unaware of them and probably aren't inclined to enforce them unless there is a problem.

As far as the potential that someone would be hurt, there is no greater potential for hurting someone that automobiles.  It's not just a potential, but a reality that drivers injure and kill many thousands of people every year.  But we don't outlaw them, we just regulate them and try to keep the slaughter down to as low a level as we can and still keep the traffic moving.  I wish the same reasoning was applied to other activities.
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 03:49:00 PM »
at one time; those people convicted of a felony ( and lost their right to keep and bear arms) could still hunt with a muzzleloader. Now that muzzleloaders have been re-invented to be rifles; felons cannot own one.

 One thing we can possibly see in our future with the advents of the compound/cam bows...

 As in the Olympics; trad bows are used; I would make sure any bow law protects trad bows. Let the C/C bow people worry about their issues by themselves. I have noticed a lot of c/c bow people draw back their bows and in doing so point the arrow at the clouds.. that could end up with a misfire and an arrow going who knows where. We draw back differently and an error like that is not to be expected....
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Offline Dittybopper

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008, 10:55:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by McDave:

As far as the potential that someone would be hurt, there is no greater potential for hurting someone that automobiles.  It's not just a potential, but a reality that drivers injure and kill many thousands of people every year.  But we don't outlaw them, we just regulate them and try to keep the slaughter down to as low a level as we can and still keep the traffic moving.  I wish the same reasoning was applied to other activities.
That's absolutely true, it can be shown with publicly available figures, and unfortunately for most people it is totally irrelevant.

I've spent quite a bit of time arguing the point with firearms by showing that there are more firearms than registered motor vehicles in the US (225 to 250 million vs. around 208 million), and they are involved in fewer fatalities (30,000 vs. 40,000).  

You can't really argue logic against a visceral reaction to what are perceived as "weapons" of any kind.  

I was lucky enough to grow up with a father who was interested in making all manner of primitive and modern weaponry.  To me, they don't have any kind of totemistic evil attached to them.  That is because I am familiar enough with them to know what they can and can not do.  I also know that they can't influence the behavior of the person wielding them.

Unfortunately, that isn't true of a great many people.  They have no experience with weapons as a class of objects, thus are ready to believe any kind of propaganda about the evils of one type or another, or inflated claims of criminality or dastardlyness.  

These people tend to also be separated from the source of their food, thus are unlikely to make the connection between a living animal and the steak, hamburger, or chicken they buy at the supermarket.  It does not occur to them that they are responsible for the deaths of animals because they don't *SEE* them until they are cut up and wrapped in nice, sanitary cellophane or handed to them through a drive-though window.

I make a point to explain this to anyone who generally asks about hunting, in either a positive or negative way.  I don't expect to convert vegans into hunters*, or even non-hunters into hunters, but at least I try and get a pro-hunting perspective in there that is philosophically consistent.

One thing I do is point is out that while I have gone completely primitive/traditional (longbow/recurve for bow season, flintlock longrifle for gun), that is my path and I do not begrudge a person using a scoped .30'06 or a compound bow (although while hunting with people using them, I might engage in a bit of good-natured ribbing  :)  ), as I once used those implements myself.   That doesn't prevent me from reporting behavior that is unethical or illegal, however.  I consider doing that a positive DUTY.  Those using illegal methods to hunt are stealing public resources.

I think if more hunters were cautious about the image that they portray, we would have very few problems.  I know of several backyard bow ranges around within a block or two, and only the one I mentioned above is potentially unsafe**.  


*Vegans are a special case.  Man as a species evolved as an omnivore, and in fact there is no habitat on Earth where a person can live a healthy vegan diet on just what grows naturally.  You can, however, live on a mostly carnivorous diet in some environments, as the Inuit have shown.  At any rate, while an anti-hunting vegan may be misguided, they are philosophically consistent unlike a person who eats meat, but is opposed to hunting.

**By the way, I took another look.  The guy has a wooden platform in one of his trees and is using that like a treestand, so it isn't as unsafe as I originally thought:  Errant shafts will end up in the dirt at most a few yards away from his foam deer, provided they don't ricochet off a rock.  I still wouldn't consider it "safe", but it is better than my original assessment.

Offline bobman

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2011, 11:17:00 AM »
I could never stand living in a developed city or suburb  if  its safely backstopped it should not be anyones business but yours what you do on your property

Online Cory Mattson

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2011, 08:11:00 AM »
Here in Sanford NC - the town changed laws last year so it is legal to hang, skin, butcher deer "in" town - 2010. Then this year "bowhunting" is now legal "inside city limits" for "deer".

I shoot in my yard - about 5 days a week. one acre lots - so someone could make a fuss if they wanted to. Mostly live and let live types here - even non hunters.

I also have been skinning and butchering Deer, bears, tukeys Hogs for the 12 years I have lived here in town and had no idea there (was) an ordinance against it.

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Offline Erick Shumway

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2011, 09:45:00 PM »
that is terrible

Offline camocowboy

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2011, 10:03:00 AM »
Robin Hood was an outlaw.

Offline njloco

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2011, 12:25:00 PM »
I have a no discharge law in my town also, for firearms I can understand this, but for archery ? I guess with us all living on top of one another ( thanks to local Gov't allowing this to happen in the first place ) I could understand this. However, I think it's legislation like this that is just there so they have something to charge a person with, If they choose to do so.
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Offline Angus

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Re: Surprise, Az to pass an ordinance against archery
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2013, 03:55:00 PM »
we deal with some of this every hunting season, since Leavenworth is essentially a tourist destination, and there are plenty of them running about in the forest.  They'll hear gunshots and call 911, only to be told it's either somebody sighting in or hunting season, depending on the time of year.  No one here would be hassled by the sheriff for having a weapon, and they're not too impressed with the tourists who come over from the Seattle area and then complain about hunters.  It's what we do here.
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