NRA supports crossbow use in archery seasons

[GregD]

The NRA has sent out a second bulletin urging all to contact the PA game comission and respectfully ask for inclusion of crossbows in general archery season. The game comission votes tomorrow.

[novahunterpa]

I support crossbow inclusin here in PA, not because i use one or want to but because I belive hunters should have the chocie to use them If they whish to.  I whish everyone hunted with trad bows, but they dont.  I feel that the compound has gotten so advanced today that it really doesent make any sence not to allow crossbows.  I think the NRA is right on in this issue.  Trad bow, compound, or crossbow the hunter should be allowed to use what he/she feels best for them.  I understand the arguement against the crossbow and respect those views, I just dont share them.  I know my view on this is unpopular among traditonal bowhunters, but this is the way I feel about it.  so please dont beat me up to much about my position  

[Brian Krebs]

novahunterpa: it is not my intent to 'beat up' anyone. Your saying what you feel is right; is what this country is all about. It is not silence that helps us understand others points of view.

 I understand the 'choice' concept; that if we all stand together; good things will happen to all of us. I think though: that is an illusion.

 If we though allow people to use whatever they feel is best for them; you might achieve that goal- but is what is best for "them" : best for bowhunting ?

 All it really would be though: is just one move in the game of chess we play- with oppositions to bowhunting.

 Some things have consequences; and there are consequences of letting crossbows: into a 'bow only' season.

 One consequence is that you open the door to ideas that if implemented: could destroy traditional bowhunting.

 One issue that the NRA pushes with rifles; is accuracy at long ranges. The goal of a rifle hunter is accuracy at long ranges; and for a long while the NRA allowed its 'bowhunting representative' to advocate 70 yard shots at game. Why not- after all the marksman seeks to make- long- accurate shots.

 While accuracy is important; for the traditional bowhunter - long range accuracy: is not.

 You open the door to questioning our accuracy; and those that clamor for 'proficiency testing' will be heard. After all - the majority of people that would be in the bow seasons would be shooting either compounds or crossbows- easily capable: by the manufacturers own advertising.  

 With a swipe of a pen- traditional archery could be a thing of the past.

 Another consequence is the increase in numbers of people in the bow season. You have to admit that if the door is opened to crossbows; that the number of people hunting in the bow seasons will go up. As that happens - restrictions are certain.

 What we traditional bowhunters need to be what we are (more than anything else): is time afield.

 We are the romantics of hunting. We are the ones that cherish being in the woods; being in the wild; and ~being part of it~.

 Tradition. Doing something the way it was traditionally done in the past. It helps us understand our past; and better appreciate our experiences.

 The tradition of rifle hunting probably has its roots in Davy Crocket and Daniel Boone. It became popular with "buffalo Bill" - when train loads of shooters would stop near or in herds of buffalo; and the shooting only stopped when all the buffalo were dead. Elk hunting in the west as late as the early 1950s was a way of getting meat; and when a herd was spotted.. then everyone opened fire and ran to tag the young cow elk over the old stinky bulls( this STILL happens NOW).

Shooting for 'sport' was born from these times.

 But too was the realization that uncontrolled - rifle hunters could nearly eliminate a species.

 It was a rifle hunter that started saving the buffalo - and started understanding the need for proper game management ( look up the history of the Kaibab deer ). WE owe a lot to those that rifle hunted; and did it for the experience of being in the woods; the camaraderie; the thrill of hunting; the adventure of it.  

  I believe in the second amendment;I think that it gives our armies strength to have people used to shooting weapons to make into soldiers. I think the discipline of shooting makes a kid with a shotgun or a .22 better prepared for fighting in wars. History has shown that this is true.

 And too I want rifle hunters to have charge of game management - in that they are the ones best capable of keeping animal populations in safe numbers. Rifle hunters also put money into game management programs; and provide great times and meat on the table for many.

 As I stated: rifle hunting is seated in this country: the freedom to walk the mountains; the land they own; the federally owned public lands- gun in hand; purpose in mind.

In fact the freedom we have in this country was won with guns.

 Bowhunting too- has its roots in the United States. Before the civil war few people hunted with a bow. After the civil war - gun ownership by confederates was an issue; and from that sprouted the first 'famous bowhunters' : The Thompson brothers. They inspired others; and then lets not forget how the last "wild indian" called "Ishi" brought into bowhunting: the lessons of the first Americans.

The heritage of bowhunting in America certainly goes back further: than when white people ruled it.

 The highest award in bowhunting is associated with Ishi.

 Read about him; what kind of person he was; how he interacted with the earth; with the animals in it; and you will see the stories you read in this forum are so entwined: that is obvious.

 So - where do crossbows fit into this?  

Why should we allow them in bow season? What positive benefit does that have for bowhunting?

 I say NONE. I say if you want to hunt with one- do it in the any weapon seasons; the rifle seasons- don't let them in the bow season.

 I think of bow season as 'bow and arrow season'; and there are no arrows with the crossbow... they shoot bolts.

  Crossbows should NOT be allowed in bow and arrow seasons!

[SteveB]

Brian - with all due respect, what you say about Ishi and crossbows could just as easily be said about the compound bow and what it has become.

Sending my renewal in today because it is due and see no reason not too.

Steve

[Brian Krebs]

SteveB yes indeed: the compound bow - or cam bow- is not headed in the right direction either.

 I think telling about our view on the issue: to the NRA is better- than not keeping membership in it.

[Stringwacker]

NovahunterPA,

Brian seems pretty passionate about his beliefs and I support what he says. There is no harm in disagreement unless we use it to belittle one another.

I think most inclusionist are pretty caring people. They want others to have the opportunity to enjoy the great outdoors. Yet, is the issue REALLY about inclusion or simply 'choice'. It's really not the same.

Bowhunting (without crossbows) are inclusionist seasons. They are open to all and 35 years ago states offered compound bow legalization as a way to get more inclusion. I think it worked very well...don't you?

Choice on the other hand is based on a belief that if you don't want to hunt as the state restrictions dictate...that you change the rules to your favor. That's pretty wicked because the core belief of the movement is a pretty sinister concept to the sport of bowhunting. There will always be more people who desire to hunt with something besides a bow....than those who do. It's really not about crossbows, but rather an ideology of change that not only can, but will go eventually far beyond just the crossbow efforts.

[novahunterpa]

Just an update,  Crossbow passed in PA today with a 4-3 vote they added a sunset provision to 2012 wich means they have to vote again in 2012 allow crossbows after this date.  This will give them time to gather data to see what if any impact crossbows have on the deer heard.

The link discussing this was pulled from the *********** for some reason. I will say it again: the NRA has trouble distinguishing an assault rifle from a hunting rifle. Now they are having trouble telling the difference between the crossbow and real bows. They are a political lobbying group which works for manufacturing interests first and foremost, under the guise of "protecting our 2nd amendment rights". Hunters'interests are a distant concern. They court us for our money & support. I will never be a member of an organization this dishonest.

[Flying Dogg]

Why wouldn't the NRA support crossbow use for everyone in archery seasons? Few archers want this. The non-bowhunting gun hunters would benefit the most from allowing crossbow use in archery only seasons. The NRA would shine like gold for getting this for their members. This is a greater threat to bowhunters than PETA is.

[SteveB]

This is a greater threat to bowhunters than PETA is.  

A group whose agenda is to end ALL hunting - starting with and including bowhunting - is the lessor threat??????????????????

[coaster500]

I will keep my NRA Membership and if Vermonster starts up "League for the Protection of Bowhunting"     I'll be one of the first to join. I will also tell any organization of which I am a member when I believe they stray from the path I signed up for. The NRA is absolutely necessary (in my mind) as a voice for all of us archers and gun owner alike.

The National Rifle Association does far and away more good for us than harm. They are without doubt one of the loudest voices in Washington and in the current climate absolutely necessary

[Al Dente]

The National RIFLE Association, of which I have been a Life Member of for nearly 2 decades, should stay away from bowhunting issues, and leave it to the State organizations.  Does Pope and Young or PBS get involved with firearms issues?  State issues should be handled within the State.  They shellshocked the PGC with their pro-crossbow rhetoric just 4 days before the vote.  Now look at where PA is with the crossbow?  When is anyone going to realize that it is all about the money, not the disabled, the youth, the female, the wounded Vet, or the elderly bowhunter.  They want it in the archery season to get the firearms hunter, connect the dots!!!!

[Steve D]

You right on the mark about that AL,the NRA  cost themselves a member speaking for myself.

[Don Stokes]

Money money money. I was a member of NRA for years, but the last time I signed up they spent all the money I sent them, sending me more letters trying to get me to send them more money. Nevermore. This is the final straw for me.

[T Lail]

we must remember as stated in earlier posts....as BOW HUNTERS we are not against crossbows but we ARE against them in archery season......they should be called crossguns as they shoot a bolt, not an arrow.......not many DNR's seem to care though, and at least here in NC no matter how hard we fight to keep archery seasons only for hand held, hand drawn bows, the bottom line is.... who has the most money to influence legislators seems to be who is winning the fight.....  :confused:

[HUNT 24/7]

If it weren't for the NRA we could be talking about hunting in past tense, although every hunting organization has things about it we might disagree with, they do waaaay more good for us than bad. Not supporting groups like the NRA is foolish if you are a hunter.  

[Mike Tomano]

I rarely post, but feel the need to weigh in. The NRA, warts and all, is the top voice of American Gunners and Hunters. As for Crossbows in Archery season, I can't see what difference it makes one way or another. This precious connection that some place on their weapon choice is insular and irrelevant thinking. The hunting collective has always been its own worst enemy. Division amongst the ranks regarding methods (baiting, dogs, etc.), choice of weapon, and refusal to stand as in an absolutist fashion has been hunting's Achilles' heel. That some gun-owners actually support the "assault weapons" ban is appalling. To know that hunters have actually supported baiting bans is disgusting. To buy in to any gun control advocacy rhetoric or animal-rights agenda is to advance their incremental ploy to ULTIMATELY end ALL gun ownership and animal use.

[HUNT 24/7]

Originally posted by Mike Tomano:
I rarely post, but feel the need to weigh in. The NRA, warts and all, is the top voice of American Gunners and Hunters. As for Crossbows in Archery season, I can't see what difference it makes one way or another. This precious connection that some place on their weapon choice is insular and irrelevant thinking. The hunting collective has always been its own worst enemy. Division amongst the ranks regarding methods (baiting, dogs, etc.), choice of weapon, and refusal to stand as in an absolutist fashion has been hunting's Achilles' heel. That some gun-owners actually support the "assault weapons" ban is appalling. To know that hunters have actually supported baiting bans is disgusting. To buy in to any gun control advocacy rhetoric or animal-rights agenda is to advance their incremental ploy to ULTIMATELY end ALL gun ownership and animal use.

Well said brother, as hunters we need to look at the big picture

[Al Dente]

So with that mentality in mind, here's a scenario that occurs across the country.  Decide for yourself what to call this person.  Sitting in full camo, in a box blind, overlooking a bait pile, in a 40 acre enclosure, bottle fed, hand raised deer, "guides" knowing where they are every second of the day.  This is a hunter I guess.  According to what you stated, we cannot be divided amongst ourselves by thinking differently.  So this person is a hunter, not an opportunistic wannabe.

Maybe the NRA should contact the State organizations before pressing their will upon the masses.  Like I stated in an earlier post, I have been a Life Member of the NRA for 2 decades, and I think they should stick the RIFLE part of their moniker, and the archery seasons to those who know more than they think they do!

[smoke1953]

Extreme opinions on either side of this issue will always exist and rarely are those minds changed and that's OK. For me personally I believe archery must be maintained in the bow season and I also believe that the closer I can behave as a natural human predator the higher quality hunt I will achieve and somewhere in this equation the hunter must have constraints to achieve balance.