How did Jefferson know?

[Horner]

When we get piled upon on another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become corrupt as Europe.
Thomas Jefferson


The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.  A principal which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.  If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'

I received this E-Mail from a fellow co-worker today.  I hope the mods will understand why I posted this here, after they read it.  I know it might not be within the rules, but I felt I had to possibly break them for this.  I do apologize in advance.
Bryan Horner

[mwmwmb]

Here is another good one from Jefferson

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. "

[Tdog]

When you speak the truth there's no reason to apologize..If we would only have listen..

[Gooserbat]

I belive if he were alive today he would weep.

And so would alot of others along with him.

[Molson]

There is no expiration date on the truth.

[Don Stokes]

My signature line:

Jefferson wasn't the only one who knew.

[Brian Krebs]

Gooserbat "I belive if he were alive today he would weep."

Not at all sure of that; whether it be with fist or the might of word; our forefathers fought for what was right.

 When they encountered indifference or found their beliefs and commitments to their souls endangered; they stood up and spoke and fought.

 It is those that quake in fear; and cover their ears; and try to cover the mouths of others out of fear- that catered to the British in our war of Independence; and who still lurk here.

[Gooserbat]

Brian, I believe he could weep because of what has become of The Great Experiment he, and Adams, Franklin, Madison and the rest of our founding fathers begun. I believe also he would stand.  Stand for the same pricipals and ideas he and the rest of of those great me who sighned That Great Document that was posted and read aloud that on July Fourth.  He would see the threats from within for what they are, and stand with us who arn't afraid to stand up for right.  Yes I agree "Whether it be with fist or the might of word" that our forefathers would stand with a resolve not seen by our generation, that we the people could boldly face the threats of today just the as they did in 1776.  Only I fear todays threats are much worse than the Britsh.

[Ragnarok Forge]

He simply looked at history around the world and saw our future in the histroy of others.  Time is creeping and the death of our nation comes closer with every tick of the clock.  We no longer as a body of people are willing to fight for what Jefferson believed in, nor keep the right path no matter the cost.  When political correctness is more inmportant than the truth.  Well lets just say the end nears and what will replace it no one knows!

[VAFarmer]

Can I weigh in on this?

I love to read posts like this-what troubles me is why there seem to be so many folks who are like minded in our thoughts, yet we ARE in the predicaments that we are today.

Is it because we are indifferent-with the "Ican't change the world" excuse?
Is it because we are afraid-afraid of going to court-being sued-being imprisoned........etc if we speak out?  

Our rights were based on the views of great men a long time ago-now our rights are being re-hashed for us by those who want to control us again.
Will we sit by and allow it?   One would like to think not, but we live in a "comfortable society" where no one wants to get dirty, and so many people are buying into the new thought train of "exchange your rights for safety".
How do we make folks see that though?  It is becoming more and more taboo to speak out against the current administration.
Folks who believe they have a right to be armed, who are God-fearing, don't agree with the courts/school systems/federal-state-local governments are now openly referred to as potential "terrorists".  
IF we are to do anything politically, without bloodshed, then the time is almost past. I fear that-based on history-there is little power left to the people, and that media and government are in complete control.

Makes me scared for my kids.

Good thread, and yes, Jefferson was brilliant.  Visit Monticello sometime-the man was an impressive architect, outside of his ability to help construct a nation.

God bless ya'll

Farmer

[Brian Krebs]

Actually I fear that many think standing up to the republican party is paramount to standing up to God.
 There of course is a path to a third party- which would represent the people; but most have decided this is a country of republican against democrat; and damn the baby and the bath water.

 People are afraid to stand up for what they believe in; they quake in fear of the unknown; and just hope that their faith will get them through.

 Even Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers.........

[mwmwmb]

Originally posted by Brian Krebs:
Actually I fear that many think standing up to the republican party is paramount to standing up to God.
 There of course is a path to a third party- which would represent the people; but most have decided this is a country of republican against democrat; and damn the baby and the bath water.

 People are afraid to stand up for what they believe in; they quake in fear of the unknown; and just hope that their faith will get them through.

 Even Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers.........

   

[Soilarch]

I can say I agree with nearly everything in this thread, and have many of the same fears/resentments/feelings/questions.

May I add gasoline to the flame?

Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler, or sometimes 'Tyler', (1742-1813) was a Scottish historian and jurist.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy."

Gee...now what was this last election nearly ENTIRELY about?  Oh yeah, "What will you do for my wallet?"

[dragon rider]

Originally posted by Brian Krebs:
Actually I fear that many think standing up to the republican party is paramount to standing up to God.
 There of course is a path to a third party- which would represent the people; but most have decided this is a country of republican against democrat; and damn the baby and the bath water.

 People are afraid to stand up for what they believe in; they quake in fear of the unknown; and just hope that their faith will get them through.

 Even Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers.........

There are many who think that standing up to the republican party is tantamount to standing up to God; there are others who think it's more little standing up to Satan.  

In either case, Brian is right; until the time that enough of us are fed up enough to do one of two things, Jefferson's wisdom sounds too much like a funeral chant for comfort.

The two things that I believe would help are:

1.  Push our state legislatures to enact open primaries.  The reason we get the candidates we do, barring an accident, is that only about 60% of us vote in general elections where we choose between 2 people who are running because they successfully catered to the 20% lunatic fringe in each party who actually vote in the primaries.  In an open primary the top two vote getters run for the office, no matter which party they're in, so there's at least a chance of getting reasonable people who could work together to accomplish something that might be beneficial.  Instead while we occasionally get lucky and get some good people, we get way too many whose only concern is "catering to the base" so they can get reelected.

2. Start a third party and contribute heavily to candidates who will actually tell the truth.  Most campaign speeches are fear mongering - either fear of the bad guys who are coming unless we give away our liberty for security, or fear of not having enough unless we elect people who promise to cut taxes, raise defense spending, raise Social Security and Medicare benefits and otherwise provide Merle Haggard's Rainbow Stew and Free Bubble Up - none of which passes Jefferson's test of reason.

Frankly, I don't think Jefferson would weep; I think he'd help start another revolution, peaceful if possible, but not if not.

[freefeet]

Originally posted by Soilarch:
I can say I agree with nearly everything in this thread, and have many of the same fears/resentments/feelings/questions.

May I add gasoline to the flame?

Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler, or sometimes 'Tyler', (1742-1813) was a Scottish historian and jurist.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy."

Gee...now what was this last election nearly ENTIRELY about?  Oh yeah, "What will you do for my wallet?"

This is the reason why the corporate controlled governments like the UK and USA want to spread democracy to the rest of the world.  Democracy is government for the greedy, and the greedy fill the coffers of the corporations who control the media that control the minds of the weak that vote for the governments that the corporations want.

[PM_Mining]

Last I checked this was a Representative Republic, speaking of the U.S.A. that is.  Little or nothing to do with a Democracy.  However, enough people are viewing the country as a "Democracy" that it is actually being treated as such by both the government and the people.

Yes, the founding fathers would weep, then an old time trip to the wood shed would probably commence

[Gooserbat]

Ok we've all cried long enough.  I my self am ready for that trip out back to the woodshed!

[Tsalagi]

Freefeet is absolutely correct. People are deluding themselves if they think either one of the two political parties here have the interests of the American people at heart. But what both excel at doing is keeping the American people at one anothers' throats over so-called "wedge issues" that the candidates then use to get themselves elected. Whereupon they then lie, cheat, and steal to their hearts content and serve their corporate masters. When the CEOs of major corporations are basically running our country, we have a government that has abdicated its responsibility of governance.

When the Republicans had total power the Democrats 'appeared' to take the role of the defenders of the people, it got them into power.  Now with the democrats in total control the republicans are assuming that role.  It is the left right paradigm, oro ab chao, control through chaos. It is understandable that no one can trust anything at face value, it seems that there is an agenda behind everything.  Always ask 'why', never let anyone else make your opinions for you, and never be afraid of the facts and truths you will find.

[Gooserbat]

What wone the hearts of the people of Minn. was when Jesse the Body answered a question by saying "I don't know."  The simple truth is to the most extravagant lie as is a 30-06 to squirle hunting.  The problem is 95% of elected oficials in DC have forgoten thet they work for us.  Until we the voting public bands togather and fires ALL OF THEM they ain't gona listen.  It's kinda like working for a boss that can't fire you or being in 3rd grade and the teacher not being able to give detentions, or paddle.  Like I said before lets quit crying and takem to the woodshed.