How did Jefferson know?

[Ragnarok Forge]

Simple as to how big brother will know you hand out pocket constitutions.  Those who fear the people institute spys everywhere dissenters go.  Our latest presidend called for and is implimenting the whole citizen militia to watch for terrorists.  

Just call them the spys within.  Lots of them around, none of them looking for real problems, just watching you and looking to see if average americans can be turned in.  Hitler did it, Stalin did it, Mao did it, Obama's doing it.

Sad thing is big brother now thinks being patriotic is dissent.  They have forgotten that they serve us not the other way around.  I plan to keep voting and working for change.  Real world history tells either I or my children will be fighting in the second american revolution.  Every civilation falls when it's people are apathetic.  Were way past that.

The US Army taught me how to fight and blow things up.  I own firearms and now am listed as a potential terrorist by my government.  The worst thing I have gotten is a speeding ticket.  Homeland security considers all veterns security risks now.

The NSA tracks every electronic signal that is produced in America, your phone calls are monitored, emails are monitored.  There is no security system they haven't breached.  Federal law requires that all American technology provides the security codes to the NSA.  This  emails will be checked by Cray Supercomputers for trigger words.

This is not conspiracy theory.  Do your research, the government verifies that they do this in their own documentation.  

I had a chat on the phone with a battle buddy about some missions after getting home from Iraq.  Apparently we said the words explosives, blew that up, and roadside bombs one to many times.  An FBI agent and I had a nice chat and now I am certain I am on several lists.

Nothing wrong or illegal with what we spoke about.  We were serving out country while doing it, and the conversation was clearly about Iraq which was mentioned several times.  Didn't matter, I still had a chat with the Fed and they were " very concerned " about by personal discussions.

[Tsalagi]

I'm a U.S. Army veteran. Sorry, but we're a long, long, long way from being a dictatorship. Know why? No money in it, LOL, and that's all our government is interested in!!! The only reason they "care" about terrorism is it disrupts business. But they won't control us or what we say---freedom of speech makes a LOT of money for people. And controlling people, why, how will they get to the mall and buy, buy, buy if they control them? Unless it's Britney Spears or some other celebrity, the average American isn't watching anyone else or interested in anyone else;-)

Have a nice evening.

[-Achilles-]

Tsalagi...I challenge you to read the constitution first...The gov has raped it...and feel free to watch he class I posted above its on youtube its 8 hours long about the constitution.

[-Achilles-]

[Tsalagi]

Achilles,

  You might do better first asking people if they've read the Constitution, which I have. It assists your argument to first ask people if they have, then if they have not, challenge them to read it. When I was in high school, the Constitution was taught as part of American History. I've read it many times since then.

  The thing about a Constitution is that it only works when the politicians are held accountable to it all the time,including "your guy" and not just the "other guy" or the next administration that you didn't vote for. Now, the aforementioned terrorism laws were not passed by Obama; they were put in place at the behest of the Bush administration. Did anyone speak up at that time? Some did, and they were considered "unpatriotic". Remember the words of Pastor Neimoller: "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out."

The time to speak up was when the terrorism laws were being crafted. Obama merely uses laws already in place. But people didn't, because they never imagined the laws could be used against them. They thought it would be "the other guy", you know, Arabs and such. And when an American citizen was jailed without charges under these laws, no one spoke up. The words of Pastor Neimoller and never truer, are they? These are valuable lessons we can learn from.

You are correct; the government is no longer in the hands of the people. But this has been going on since the end of World War Two. We can't pin the blame on any one man or administration. Things are not that simple; they never are. Nothing happens in a vacuum. It first takes a population to allow it, for one thing.

I am glad to see you asking questions. Whether or not we totally agree on all things makes no difference. I, for one, stand up and cheer people such as yourself getting involved and taking a stand. I think we all want to see the best for our country.

Have a nice evening.    

[Tsalagi]

Now, here are some quotes from Thomas Jefferson very relevant to today:

"Everything predicted by the enemies of banks, in the beginning, is now coming to pass. We are to be ruined now by the deluge of bank paper. It is cruel that such revolutions in private fortunes should be at the mercy of avaricious adventurers, who, instead of employing their capital, if any they have, in manufactures, commerce, and other useful pursuits, make it an instrument to burden all the interchanges of property with their swindling profits, profits which are the price of no useful industry of theirs." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814. ME 14:61

"Certainly no nation ever before abandoned to the avarice and jugglings of private individuals to regulate according to their own interests, the quantum of circulating medium for the nation -- to inflate, by deluges of paper, the nominal prices of property, and then to buy up that property at 1s. in the pound, having first withdrawn the floating medium which might endanger a competition in purchase. Yet this is what has been done, and will be done, unless stayed by the protecting hand of the legislature. The evil has been produced by the error of their sanction of this ruinous machinery of banks; and justice, wisdom, duty, all require that they should interpose and arrest it before the schemes of plunder and spoilation desolate the country." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Rives, 1819. ME 15:232

"The bank mania... is raising up a moneyed aristocracy in our country which has already set the government at defiance, and although forced at length to yield a little on this first essay of their strength, their principles are unyielded and unyielding. These have taken deep root in the hearts of that class from which our legislators are drawn, and the sop to Cerberus from fable has become history. Their principles lay hold of the good, their pelf of the bad, and thus those whom the Constitution had placed as guards to its portals, are sophisticated or suborned from their duties." --Thomas Jefferson to Josephus B. Stuart, 1817. ME 15:112

"The system of banking have... ever reprobated. I contemplate it as a blot left in all our Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction, which is already hit by the gamblers in corruption, and is sweeping away in its progress the fortunes and morals of our citizens." --Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816. ME 15:18

"I sincerely believe... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale." --Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816. ME 15:23

Have a nice evening!  

Thomas Jefferson obviously understood the threat of the secret society that controlled the banks very well. It is a dumb ed down apathetic society that allows it to happen and it will take an awake informed society to reverse this. It is hard though, when every form of information is controlled by them. Look at all the deregulations that have happened over the last 30 years that have allowed this control.  It truly is the modern age version of burning the books.  Some in power have learned very well how to repeat history. We trad shooters are a peaceful bunch, it would be hard to consider us much of threat to anyone.  However, knowledge is power or is it knowledge tells one when to duck.

[-Achilles-]

Tsalagi....Good now I don't have to preach to you...lol...So maybe were not heading to a dictatorship but something just as bad...We have got to wake people up somehow someway!!!

[-Achilles-]

Good god man they convinced everybody that we are over in Iraq trying to make it more stable,safe for democracy...wtf???...WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY..."And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands"...

[Tsalagi]

Achilles,

  What I believe we're heading towards is a corporatocracy where Wall Street, in essence, owns and runs the country and government. That, basically, our elected officials are mere puppets controlled by them. So, basically, the people lose their voice and control over the government, because each representative we elect is already owned by banks and/or corporations. You will note that Thomas Jefferson very accurately predicted that in one of the quotes I gave which I'll quote again here and summarize:

"The bank mania... is raising up a moneyed aristocracy in our country which has already set the government at defiance...These have taken deep root in the hearts of that class from which our legislators are drawn...and thus those whom the Constitution had placed as guards to its portals, are sophisticated or suborned from their duties."

 You are correct. We are not a democracy, but a representative republic. The Founding Fathers were students of Classical Greece and knew what happened with democracy in Ancient Athens. The thing is, we've lost control of our representatives. We have allowed a system to rise where it takes big money to run for office. Television is partly to blame for this, since TV ads cost big bucks. And political campaigns take on a life of their own in the media, looking more like a Busby Berkeley musical than a political campaign. The campaigns rely on Hollywood and the "Cult of the Celebrity" and this costs money. This is how the banks and corporations got a foot in the door to owning themselves a government.

It takes people to value a teacher over an actress. It takes people to value a firefighter over a sports star. And to show that value in what we do and how we act as a society. It takes people to value honesty and integrity over a nice hairdo and a flashy slogan. That's how people wake up.

[huntindad]

"It takes people to value a teacher over an actress. It takes people to value a firefighter over a sports star. And to show that value in what we do and how we act as a society. It takes people to value honesty and integrity over a nice hairdo and a flashy slogan. That's how people wake up."

    Well said Tsalagi!!
 
       Bill

[Wary Buck]

The Founding Fathers had a significantly simpler country in which to govern.  The world is so much more complicated today.

That said, I think we could go back to the basics and study the actions of the Founding Fathers, simplify things, and rediscover our souls as Americans.

[Ragnarok Forge]

I have to disagree that things were more simple then.  They founding fathers decided to take on the worlds most powerful nation with no real money, no military to speak of and poor communications systems to run things.  We have instand communication, a strong military, and we are the worlds greatest nation.  Thing that matter for our success as a nation are far simpler now than then.  The real challenge is getting the average american off their butt to vote and keep their politicians honest.

We are already a coporatocracy.  Guess who got most of the funds from the stimulus packages?  Sure wasn't you and me.  Coporations got it and then got their bonuses and kept their jobs.  As for blaming this or that party, you can just blame them all they are all bought by corporations.

As for the present administration, history is not going to be kind to a bunch of tax dodging, veteran hating, socialists who are driving us into the deepest debt this country has every seen.

[mwmwmb]

Ragnarok,
If you think we live in a corpratocracy now. Just wait. the previous administration's supreme court just overturned decades of political protections from corporations. now with unlimited corprate campaign contrabutions being legal, there will be nothing but The United Corporations of America.

[Tsalagi]

Here's how one begins the process to liberate one's own mind:

Turn Off The TV!

The people who control television are the corporations. They control what you see and what they want you to see---and, thus, believe.

And think about this. Guess who was the very first person who looked at television and said, "We need this! We can use this! Get this to the people right away---everyone must have one!"

Answer? Adolf Hitler. And the first major TV broadcasts were by the Third Reich.

[Tsalagi]

Also, read "Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen. Best book you'll read and very relevant.

[FrankM]

The Founders Fathers were mostly highly educated and religious men. They learned lessons from history. That is why they chose to model our country after the Roman Republic and not the Greek Democracy. The Bill of Rights was to ensure that this system of government could be maintained; the power lies with the people. As for corporatism, etc., they are all forms of national socialism. There is no other form of socialism as a controlling force. Socialism is only true (or benign) socialism, and not fascism, if it is a system such as Social Security.

Communist countries by default are fascist countries, as true communism cannot exist without chaos. There is such thing as communism as the people can never be equal.

If the USA becomes socialist, we'll really be fascist (national socialist). So there you have it, you're either free, or you're not.

[-Achilles-]

The Federal reserve maybe the heart of the problem.

The federal reserve is a private bank that is unconstitutional.

Abraham lincoln tried to get out of it and he ends up shot.

JFK tries to get out of it and he ends up shot.

Hmmm what a coincidence.

People need to educate themselves on the private banks through out history,follow the money trail.

Who funded the wars?

Who benefits from war?

Andrew Jackson called the private banks a "Den of vipers and by the strength of God I'll route you out"...And he did for about 75 years but in 1913 the central bank came back and is now called the federal reserve.

Same year the IRS came in to existence and the same year that the 16th amendment was  purportedly ratified-notice I said  purportedly.

WHAT A coincidence!

Oct 1929 stockmarket crash was not an accident and was deliberatly caused.Now that alone didn't cause the great depression.What caused the great depression was that they took the money out of curculation.

So say we had 2400 dollars per person and by the next year there was only 15 dollars per person.

There was no money for employers to pay anyone with.

Now we have a national emergency and this is where Theodore Roosevelt(socialist) comes in and suspends gold standard.Makes it illegal to demand gold as payment and that you must accept worthless paper as payment and we have been in this national emergencey since....Hitler was doing the same thing.

The FED starts depression by taking money out and they fixed it by printing more money but its still worthless paper and the only real money thats worth anything is gold and silver and its the only constitutional money.

We borrow paper dollars from the fed and the IRS takes it from us and pays it back to the fed.


The federal reserve notes we use as money are worthless paper and basically they are only worth what the fed says they are.

[Tsalagi]

Ummm...Achilles, I agree with some of what you're saying. BUUUTTT... it wasn't Theodore Roosevelt that eliminated the gold standard. It was Frankiln Delano Roosevelt. And neither one of them were "socialists". Socialism, as an economic system, is where the workers own the means of production and run it to fulfil their own needs without profit. You can't be a "socialist" and a pro-bank plutocrat at the same time. It's just not possible. This country owes a lot to FDR and a lot of things people take for granted today were his doing. It's easy for people that didn't live back then to criticize FDR, but you'll find few working people who were adults at that time criticize him.

  There's too much throwing about of the word "socialist" these days and I daresay the people doing so have never read Karl Marx and really have no understanding of the actual economic system of socialism and what it actually means. People are mixing up 'socialism" with the current corporate capitalist plutocracy (of which, yes, the Federal Reserve is a part). This makes their argument relatively easy to defeat when they do that.

  But, answer me this: How does returning to gold and silver as the only true cash medium suddenly correct all the current problems? I ask this because Ancient Rome used gold and silver as currency and they were one of the most warlike civilizations that ever existed, in addition to having a totally corrupt Senate and Imperators with dictatorial powers (crowd-pleasers such as Tiberius and Caligula, for example) to execute whomever they liked. In fact, it was seen as a hallmark of ascending political power once someone (Marc Antony, for example) began minting their own coins from gold and/or silver. So, how does gold/silver coinage stop abuse of political power?

[-Achilles-]

LOL...Sorry I meant Frankiln Delano Roosevelt.

Yes he was a socialist an he enacted socialist ideas.Do a search with his name and "socialist" hell he admired Mussolini.

"but you'll find few working people who were adults at that time criticize him."

Well yea because they don't know the whole story they went from the depression to prosperity thinking he was a savior.


"How does returning to gold and silver as the only true cash medium suddenly correct all the current problems?"

"People are mixing up 'socialism" with the current corporate capitalist plutocracy (of which, yes, the Federal Reserve is a part)."

Thomas Jefferson-

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)

This is exactly what is happening.