Privilege or right?

[freefeet]

Good topic this.

[Davo]

Hydraulic Despotism hmm  He who health care, the banks, the irs, the fed, auto industry, energy the military the spice, controls the universe.  Why does that sound so familiar.

[Tsalagi]

This is a great thread. I believe hunting is a right. I also believe it is my right to pick blackberries, apples, acorns, walnuts, and mushrooms that are not on private property. Just because a supermarket exists does not negate those rights.

Where we got waylaid is when it came to pass that we had to beseech the government to exercise rights that we have had from the beginnings of our species. The discovery of spearpoints in Cro-Magnon caves tells us our species has always had personal arms. And also hunted. Therefore, where we're being cheated is that it is supposed these rights descend from the hand of the government or even from the Bill of Rights. These rights always existed. Our most ancient ancestors fought their way up the food chain and secured them. Not some flaccid bureaucrat wtih a bad combover.

[stickbow2442]

I also believe its a right. I do beleive in proper managment of animals, just so there will always be animals to hunt. I always obey the laws of the land because thats what God says to do. But hunting is a right and not a privilege like some states like to think.

[Tyler2045]

It is my right to hunt. And as long as the government does not cross God's word, I will continue to obey its laws but when the Government crosses God that is when I cross the government. They is probably considered a terrorist statement by the government but so be it.

[Brian Krebs]

This is not a government of Gods word. This is not a Christian country; this is a country with a lot of Christians; but a lot of other religions too.
 This discussion is about the right to hunt versus the privilege to hunt.
  We are a country that values rights.
Not all rights are enumerated.
 'We hold these truths to be self evident; that all men are created equal; and that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights- and among these- are life; liberty; and the pursuit of happiness.'

 I feel hunting falls under liberty; and the pursuit of happiness; and it is my life.

 ~'some people hunt because its what they do- some people hunt because its what they are'- and for me; it is: what I am ~

[mwmwmb]

Well said Brian.

The banks have created many times the amount of money as there is assets in the world.  Look at what Arnold is trying to pull off in California, an end run around the global warming scam, so that the control and taxes can still be put into place.  There are big dollars going toward the claiming of massive water rights, to the point that it can be illegal for you to dig a well on your own land. If the power brokers can pull scams like this off with no one stopping them, they can snap up our hunting rights as well. they will just hire Blackwater security forces to act as game wardens. Look at what is happening in Austin Texas, our rights are under attack, we have to WAKE-UP.

[Tsalagi]

Pavan, you need to read "Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen. I am serious. Get this book. It's fiction, but I've never read a book as relevant to what's going on today.

[pokeanhope]

It is my right as a human being to hunt, If only becouse I am the top of the food chain.    There is not such thing as a mighty goverment. we only let them think this, until we are fed up with the crap they are dishing out. The power is in the people. No man has any power over me, other than what I let him. I have the ability to over rule him at any time, this power was given to me by my god, and winchester! So there for I hunt becouse I want to, Not becouse they say I can.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Originally posted by GMMAT:
If something must be provided to us at the expense of someone else in order for us to have it, then it may be an entitlement, a privilage, or an act of charity – but it is not a “right”.

We're best served when we leave emotions out of such discussions.

Our freedoms are provided to us at the expense of others (those who gave their lives to protect them), are they not our right?

[Tsalagi]

Not to quibble, but we're born with rights, whether or not someone dies to defend them. The Declaration of Independance states:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

True, others have given their lives to secure and safeguard those rights, but the rights existed beforehand.

Securing food is a natural right. As living beings, we must eat. Therefore, food is a human right, as is water. And that will lead a lot of people into very interesting political territory, but if hunting is a right, access to food period is a human right. I believe that to be so in both cases.

[freefeet]

Originally posted by Tsalagi:
Securing food is a natural right. As living beings, we must eat. Therefore, food is a human right, as is water. And that will lead a lot of people into very interesting political territory, but if hunting is a right, access to food period is a human right. I believe that to be so in both cases.

And when there's not enough food and water to go around, who has the right to what there is?  Everyone can't have it.

[Tsalagi]

Freefeet, there is more than enough food and water to go around. I worked in a fruit packing shed and saw tons of good fruit being thrown away, just to keep the prices up. I've seen fields full of vegetables, left to rot. You could smell them miles away. I advise you to read this book: Waste: Uncovering the Global Food Scandal by Tristram Stuart

I'm not saying food aid shouldn't have strings attached. Birth control is a string that must be attached. But when we're sitting here throwing away mountains of food and people are starving, this is inexcusable.

Trust me on this, Freefeet. if the time comes that there literally isn't enough food and water to go around and that we are fighting over food and water, we are done as a species and a few years from extinction. Or a mass die-off on a scale that would make an all-out nuclear war look like nickles-n-dimes. The end result of which would make the Dark Ages look like the Enlightenment.

[freefeet]

You're missing the point i was trying to make.

If human rights are unalienable, granted by god, whatever anyone claims them to be, what happens to the right of everyone to have food when there isn't enough food to go around?

Ie., there cannot be an unalienable, or god given, right to something when there isn't enough of the something to be had by all that that encompasses.  What happens then?

I do sometimes like to play the devils advocate (and i'm 1/2 through a nice bottle of Jacob's Creek Shiraz 2006 (not as good as the 2007        ) ) , so please don't be offended.       :D

[Brian Krebs]

I look at hunting as a right; but I do follow the rules about how many of a species I kill; so that I don't destroy a species.

 Conservation of our wildlife is logical.

The vast overwhelming percentage of people that hunt stay within the bounds of the law.
 
 I do think we have a right to drink and eat; and eating involves something dying; plant or animal.
 
 We can see in Haiti how the lack of food and water means the strongest survive. When food is given out and water given out- fights erupt in areas where people have gone long without either.

 With our bows; we are not going to be the winners in a fight for food; if that food is wild animals.
 Rifles and scopes and range finders make 900+ yard shots at elk; and deer; and even trotting coyotes at that range and more possible.
  So - we trad bowhunters would not be the winners in a world where people have to hunt to survive.

 Hunting is a right; a human right; but being human also brings responsibilities.

 We are not to the point in most of the world to have to kill on our own to survive.

 This discussion is not about the day after Armageddon - its about now- and that is where the discussion should stay - IMHO.

[Tsalagi]

I agree with Brian. He said it better than I can.

[-Achilles-]

I think its funny that so many think that hunting is a right yet they ask for permission via permit,registration to carry a gun even though its clearly stated in the constitution as a right.

[Tsalagi]

Well, hate ta tell ya this, but try being unemployed with a weapons-related misdemeanor on your record that you MUST list on job applications because they ask and WILL do a pre-hire background check. I agree with you, but trust me, brother, it isn't worth the arrest, fine, and lifelong record following you around.

Take-away lesson? Get the CCW permit or if they say you can't carry such-and-such type of knife, well, don't carry that knife.

[-Achilles-]

So then we would have to except then that neither hunting or guns is a right.If you have to get permission then its not a right.